Some Actual Constructive Feedback.

[KombatKaine]

Since this is very clearly trying to emulate WoW's M+ system, even down to the aesthetic and UI design, Im gonna pull from that.


Things I think are done well (but could maybe use some tweaking):

-The UI is decent. it's clean-ish and clearly pulls inspiration from popular WoW UI addons like Plater, Cell, Details, etc.

-The class design is decent. Im mostly playing the healers and I think theyre decently well designed. maybe a few minor tweaks, but overall i think theyre cool concepts.

-the art is nice. I know it's not everyones preferred style, but i think it looks nice and is done fairly well.

-The adventure/dungeons lengths are decent. Not too long, but not too short.

-The boss design is fairly good. There's some interesting and unique mechanics that are pretty neat.


Things I think need a good bit of improvement:

-The UI needs to be more customizable. as a healer, Unit Frames are super important. In WoW, I run mine vertically. Unless i missed something, it doesnt look like thats possible here.

-The combat is just a bit off. It feels a bit sluggish. Idk if its maybe a longer GCD, or what, but it kinda feels like playing m+ but with classic wow's combat. it technically works, but just doesn't feel right.

-I think the talents are a bit lack luster. they all have a clear intent, which is cool, but it feels like there is a very clear best option, while the other 2 on the row feel useless or very low impact. maybe more options per row? or a redesign of the weaker ones?

-the dungeons layouts are a bit boring. a core part of the fun of m+ (at least for me and my group of friends) is getting creative with routing to be efficient in the dungeon. currently, the dungeons are very linear, mostly, with only a "do we fight this pack on the left or this one on the right" choice. additionally to that, a tool to map out a route in the dungeons wud be awesome.

-the gearing is honestly the worst part imo. its like overly simple but overly confusing at the same time. the stats are basic, but it seems like everything is relatively fixed, so getting stats the way you want them is kinda not gonna really happen. and also, 1 piece of loots for a 1 boss dungeon, and 1 piece for a 3 boss dungeon is lame. i know the 3 boss can give u set bonuses, but thats not really a compelling reason to do them. at the very least, the 3 boss dungeons should be dropping 2 pieces, to make gearing and scrapping for resources more rewarding for doing the longer/"harder" content.


I know there's more, but this is the main stuff that comes to mind. But overall, i think what they are trying to do is insanely awesome. I've been wanting a standalone m+ game for a long time, as its the only reason i play WoW, and when the season dies down, nothing scratches that itch until the new season. This would be a PERFECT filler. yes it needs work. but the baseline is there, and theyre pulling from all the right things from wow (UI, combat-ish, design, kiss/curse affixes).

Everyone is being so hateful and negative, as is the nature of steam forums, so i just wanted to throw in some actual feedback in the hopes this game will succeed.

[Draktok]

My thoughts on your thoughts.

the ui needs some work, including customization

I agree. we need more ui scaling big time, more ui customization, it's very close to being great, but not quite there. Text is hard to read , too. too small, but i can't scale it.

talents are a bit lack luster

also agree. More choices would be better, too. even wow moved away from the 3 talent row system because it's actually kind of boring - albiet it's different here since you can get two on the same row, but more choices isn't bad. and the choices need to be balanced some more. some characters have clear 'better' choices than others on the same row.

dungeon layouts are boring

i'm 50/50 on this one. I think they're about as inspired as can be for somethign we have no lore or attachment to, tbh. They're fine enough, I don't know.

loot adjustments

i agree, we need more options to protect ourselves in 3 boss dungeons from bad loot, too. Here are some suggestions i had posted in the discord about this thing - Note these are just various ideas.

Allow us to reroll the one item we got (with gold?) once to see if we get a more relevant piece.
Include bad luck protection guaranteeing and upgrade after X dungeons
Allow us to choose from 2-3 options in higher tier dungeons (tier 6-9, 2 pieces? 10+, 3 pieces? idk)
Allow trading
Allow us to set 'preferences' - e.g. allow me to 'disable' one loot drop from the dungeon
Disable the ability to receive the same loot twice in a row (automatically reroll it on the backend if it's the same piece we just received)

[KombatKaine]

Originally posted by Draktok:

My thoughts on your thoughts.

the ui needs some work, including customization

I agree. we need more ui scaling big time, more ui customization, it's very close to being great, but not quite there. Text is hard to read , too. too small, but i can't scale it.

talents are a bit lack luster

also agree. More choices would be better, too. even wow moved away from the 3 talent row system because it's actually kind of boring - albiet it's different here since you can get two on the same row, but more choices isn't bad. and the choices need to be balanced some more. some characters have clear 'better' choices than others on the same row.

dungeon layouts are boring

i'm 50/50 on this one. I think they're about as inspired as can be for somethign we have no lore or attachment to, tbh. They're fine enough, I don't know.

loot adjustments

i agree, we need more options to protect ourselves in 3 boss dungeons from bad loot, too. Here are some suggestions i had posted in the discord about this thing - Note these are just various ideas.

Allow us to reroll the one item we got (with gold?) once to see if we get a more relevant piece.
Include bad luck protection guaranteeing and upgrade after X dungeons
Allow us to choose from 2-3 options in higher tier dungeons (tier 6-9, 2 pieces? 10+, 3 pieces? idk)
Allow trading
Allow us to set 'preferences' - e.g. allow me to 'disable' one loot drop from the dungeon
Disable the ability to receive the same loot twice in a row (automatically reroll it on the backend if it's the same piece we just received)

solid loot ideas. the dungeon layouts are fine yeah, but i more just meant more choice in them would be nice. like "left path has 4 medium diff packs, right path has 2 very difficult packs", just something to make it a little less HoldW.

but thanks for contributing to the feedback and not just ♥♥♥♥ posting =) need more of that.

[placeholder]

Most points like dungeons, talents etc are just because it is a beta and not a 3 year old game.

In a game thats only about M+ there will be 50 dungeons and the later they got introduced the more creative they are.
It s the same for RTS maps.

At the start, like now, the basics are important and they have done them right.

Next up should be what basics have to be improved so it feels best with current content. Then new content

[Wolfsoldier5]

How many pieces of gear do you all want per dungeon? 2? 5? 10?

EVERYONE gets 1 piece and that is pretty good. If we are comparing to WoW, 2 people get a piece and the others pray that in the next run they will get something.

What you mean about dungeon being linear? They often have different paths you can pick, you can choose to skip quite a few mobs. How different is that from WoW when in most dungeon you will be doing the same pulls every time? MAYBE something different in a tyrannical/fortified week

[londreik]

Originally posted by Wolfsoldier5:

How many pieces of gear do you all want per dungeon? 2? 5? 10?

EVERYONE gets 1 piece and that is pretty good. If we are comparing to WoW, 2 people get a piece and the others pray that in the next run they will get something.

What you mean about dungeon being linear? They often have different paths you can pick, you can choose to skip quite a few mobs. How different is that from WoW when in most dungeon you will be doing the same pulls every time? MAYBE something different in a tyrannical/fortified week

Comparing to WoW where u can have some gear in other activities while here is only one? Why you comparing that?

[Wolfsoldier5]

Originally posted by londreik:

Originally posted by Wolfsoldier5:

How many pieces of gear do you all want per dungeon? 2? 5? 10?

EVERYONE gets 1 piece and that is pretty good. If we are comparing to WoW, 2 people get a piece and the others pray that in the next run they will get something.

What you mean about dungeon being linear? They often have different paths you can pick, you can choose to skip quite a few mobs. How different is that from WoW when in most dungeon you will be doing the same pulls every time? MAYBE something different in a tyrannical/fortified week

Comparing to WoW where u can have some gear in other activities while here is only one? Why you comparing that?

????

Why even consider other activities when we only have M+ here and that is what we are talking about?
The point being you are 100% GUARANTEED a piece, in WoW you can go 5+ dungeons without a SINGLE drop.

[Rottaq]

Originally posted by Wolfsoldier5:

Originally posted by londreik:

Comparing to WoW where u can have some gear in other activities while here is only one? Why you comparing that?

????

Why are you comparing other activities when we only have M+ here and that is what we are talking about?
The point being you are 100% GUARANTEED a piece, in WoW you can go 5+ dungeons without a SINGLE drop.

both options are bad. the gearing feels unrewarding and like a slog. playing for multiple hours just to get minimal progression feels really bad. especially if you only get helmets from 5 dungeons in a row :P

[londreik]

Originally posted by Wolfsoldier5:

Originally posted by londreik:

Comparing to WoW where u can have some gear in other activities while here is only one? Why you comparing that?

????

Why are you comparing other activities when we only have M+ here and that is what we are talking about?
The point being you are 100% GUARANTEED a piece, in WoW you can go 5+ dungeons without a SINGLE drop.

Cause at start of the game u get ton's of gear without forced to grind, lmao
When you have only m+ activity then ur progress is something about fckd up, cause ur loot can be 3 rings for 3 dungeons. Same dungeons, same rings - so u can't wear both. And this is bad for entertaining.
When u go to M+ content in WoW u already have some piece of gear and more - experience of playing ur character with smooth progression. M+ not a progression system in WoW, u already have all spells, all dungeons available, all talents. U going there for high gear chance only
But in this game - progression tied with ur current progression in dungeons

[Wolfsoldier5]

Originally posted by londreik:

Originally posted by Wolfsoldier5:

????

Why are you comparing other activities when we only have M+ here and that is what we are talking about?
The point being you are 100% GUARANTEED a piece, in WoW you can go 5+ dungeons without a SINGLE drop.

Cause at start of the game u get ton's of gear without forced to grind, lmao
When you have only m+ activity then ur progress is something about fckd up, cause ur loot can be 3 rings for 3 dungeons. Same dungeons, same rings - so u can't wear both. And this is bad for entertaining.
When u go to M+ content in WoW u already have some piece of gear and more - experience of playing ur character with smooth progression. M+ not a progression system in WoW, u already have all spells, all dungeons available, all talents. U going there for high gear chance only
But in this game - progression tied with ur current progression in dungeons

It was about gear drop at the end of a dungeon.
All of a sudden it became about spells, talents and progression.

How is M+ high chance of gear? You can do multiple runs and not get a single drop.

What do you mean by getting tons of gear without forced grind? Quests?

Even if you do drop the same 3 rings, you are still guaranteed to get gear which you will then scrap and it becomes resources.

So what that you have to do some dungeons to get some spells/talents? You don't even need to spend 50hrs leveling your chars and if you want to test another class, same deal, no need to lvl to test.

I honestly have no idea what you are talking about. I also have no idea why people are crying when they are guaranteed a drop.

You all just cry too much

[KombatKaine]

idk how this devolved into an argument about how much gear u get, but that is not at all what the point i made was about. it was about a lack of difference between 1 boss and 3 boss drops. YES, set bonuses come from the 3 boss dungeons. The set bonuses are pretty mediocre, and hardly worth the longer run. The point was that there should be a substantial difference between 1 and 3 boss loot drops. idc if that means more loot, better loot, whatever.

not an exact science of a comparison, but look at raid vs m+ in wow. look at Heroic vs say a +10. similar difficulty, similar item level. take the catalyst/vault out of the equation, and say both have the same loot tables. 8 boss raid, most ppl leave with 1 piece of loot, some with 2 or even 3. m+, 2 ppl get 1 piece. if raid only gave less than half the raid 1 piece of loot at the end of the entire raid, all of a sudden raid gearing looks pretty ♥♥♥♥. and it being the only source of tier would mean yeah, you might do it, but its not gonna feel good. more time investment, for same chance and same # of loot drops as m+, with the only bonus being MAYBE that piece will be tier.

thats the point i was making. and this whole rant of "yOu WaNt MoRe LoOt FoR fReE" is pointless cuz it has nothing to do with the post.

[Wolfsoldier5]

I still think 1 piece for a 3 boss dungeon is fine. The sets I have seen are 0/2, the low tier ones are giving 5%, so 15% is pretty decent if everything can be part of a set.
Even if you can only use 1 set, 1 piece of gear per dungeon is fine.

Again, you are all taking this 1 piece for granted when in WoW you can spend 2-3hrs in a raid and get NOTHING. People with higher ilvl on that slot can still troll you and roll on the piece.
You have to be quite lucky these days in WoW to walk away with 2-3 pieces of gear. Everyone just needs on everything to sell and troll.

Heard the game might also get raids so that could be another source of gear/tier.