Shadowflops

[fredingue]

Having just missed the campain final chapter for the 3rd time on very hard, i make a pause and just wanted to post on some game mechanisms that really makes this part a weak point.

1. Weapons : how stupid the game engine that choses for default weapon your weakest at each and every load screen. Not noticing it and having 2 fulls weak turns is a real sore.

Plus, how stupid you feel chasing ghost beetles "this thing is immune"...damned each time i take the wrong gun, i fire with normal guns on etheral beetles and with aegis guns on alive ones. Making that 10 times is really raging.

So, now, we have learned the main game mechanism of Shadowflop : "check that you are holding the appropriate weapon before firing". The rest is just routine...

2. NPC : OK, you just notice that Dodger is a cup of milk in easy on normal. Then on very hard, you just realise each NPC are just worth peanuts, especially that last 2 campain companions, Harlequin and Sir Miss-a-lot. How can Harlequin adopt his pimp-pretender behavior with such a talent for missing a cow in a corridor ? Can Sir Telestrian explain to me why his best mercs are just broken-arms towards any hirable guy ?

3. Being unabel to heal or use most things or interact with your teammates out of combat is nonsence

4. Cheated. Why is Jessica immune to concussion grenades ? She is not wearing a anti-gaz masks, and, to my knowledge, she doesn't come from another plane. Why can she heal then run 50 spaces away ? Why does 2 beetles spawn as soon as i kill a ghost ?
OK, this is very hard mode, but i'm still puzzled about game makers basing difficulty on multiplication on OP ennemies...

Loved the campain so far but this final is not the firework i had expected, it's just a "well, let's finish that stupid level then try smart mods"

[fredingue]

Huh ?

Well, finally got rid of that final junk. The rest of the story was same way : my choice is to work for those idiot Telestrians. Even as Security Head, ha ha ha

I'm gonna have Harlequin as a force partner or even patron next ?
Pityfull as i got ot hate this puppet...

Things are getting tensed in Berlin...and i will have to work with those guys ?

*sighs*

Strange, i loved this campain but its miss-fuzed-up ending will leave a bad feeling about the game...

[Phoenix7786]

I chose to save the Seamstress Union by asking Telestrian to "convince" the zoning board not to shut down the power grid.

[Wintermute]

I have my issues with Harlequin too, i don't know if you are into the Shadowrun lore. But Harlequin is an eternal, he survived since the last age of magic a few thousand years ago, and for that he is really weak - i mean my PC was far superior to him in both ranged and melee, which kinda weird since he had a awful long time to train. He shouldn't be on the run with the PC in my opinion.

[Wintermute]

Originally posted by Randy:

I chose to save the Seamstress Union by asking Telestrian to "convince" the zoning board not to shut down the power grid.

same here, but i didnt use the seamstress as reason.

[St. Haborym]

Originally posted by fredingue:

1. Weapons : how stupid the game engine that choses for default weapon your weakest at each and every load screen. Not noticing it and having 2 fulls weak turns is a real sore.

Plus, how stupid you feel chasing ghost beetles "this thing is immune"...damned each time i take the wrong gun, i fire with normal guns on etheral beetles and with aegis guns on alive ones. Making that 10 times is really raging.
4. Cheated. Why is Jessica immune to concussion grenades ? She is not wearing a anti-gaz masks, and, to my knowledge, she doesn't come from another plane.

1. Pay more attention

2. What do gas masks have to do with concussion grenades? They're CONCUSSION grenades, not GAS grenades. They use concussive force to incapacitate, not chemical agents.

[Zefix]

Originally posted by Haborym:

1. Pay more attention

Bad GUI and you blame the user...

2. What do gas masks have to do with concussion grenades? They're CONCUSSION grenades, not GAS grenades. They use concussive force to incapacitate, not chemical agents.

And? Your point?

[Procrastinating Gamer]

1. Just pay attention before firing and remember to use the special weapon on the special form (true form bug spirits are the only ones with a second form so it's easy to remember).

2. Never had much trouble with the NPCs, just need to remember to read their abilities, gear and 'ware before hiring them. As for Harlequin and the Tir Tairngire Ghost (who's not a mercenary; the Ghosts are Tir Tairngire's elite special forces), you can think of it as bug spirits being naturally hard to get a solid hit on or just make sure Harlequin uses his Aim spell.

3. You can use healing gear and spells outside of combat. Open up the inventory, click on the Heal spell/medkit and there should be an Activate button on the item focus near the top - the orange bit that normally lists an item's stats or effects. Click that Activate button and you'll get a menu of the party members you can heal with it.

4. She's immune to concussion grenades and the like, as well as being so fast, because she's drawing power from bug spirits not on this plane yet (possibly even the bug spirit queen she's trying to summon). You can cut her off from some of this, not all of it, by attacking those bug spirit pillars - force them closed and Jessica won't be able to heal herself and her spells won't be as potent.

[St. Haborym]

Originally posted by Fleischtorte:

Originally posted by Haborym:

1. Pay more attention

Bad GUI and you blame the user...

2. What do gas masks have to do with concussion grenades? They're CONCUSSION grenades, not GAS grenades. They use concussive force to incapacitate, not chemical agents.

And? Your point?

Spam much buddy? You added absolutely nothing of value to the conversaion.

[Kalon]

Originally posted by B'oh | ShadowFighter88:

1. Just pay attention before firing and remember to use the special weapon on the special form (true form bug spirits are the only ones with a second form so it's easy to remember).

2. Never had much trouble with the NPCs, just need to remember to read their abilities, gear and 'ware before hiring them. As for Harlequin and the Tir Tairngire Ghost (who's not a mercenary; the Ghosts are Tir Tairngire's elite special forces), you can think of it as bug spirits being naturally hard to get a solid hit on or just make sure Harlequin uses his Aim spell.

3. You can use healing gear and spells outside of combat. Open up the inventory, click on the Heal spell/medkit and there should be an Activate button on the item focus near the top - the orange bit that normally lists an item's stats or effects. Click that Activate button and you'll get a menu of the party members you can heal with it.

4. She's immune to concussion grenades and the like, as well as being so fast, because she's drawing power from bug spirits not on this plane yet (possibly even the bug spirit queen she's trying to summon). You can cut her off from some of this, not all of it, by attacking those bug spirit pillars - force them closed and Jessica won't be able to heal herself and her spells won't be as potent.

Nailed it. Basically you are getting owned because you are a self admitted moron. Pay attention, stop sucking, kick more ass, and someone should let the armies of the world know that gas masks block concussion grenades ROFL. That last one kills me, you really are an idiot. Never mind that Jessica is basically more insect spirit than human and even IF concussion grenades used gas (which they dont) it still wouldn't be any stretch of the imagination that she should be immune....
Remember when games that were hard made you think "man, this is a challenge, but someday I will get good enough to overcome this ♥♥♥♥" instead of "this game is ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ and clearly I am awesome and I should be able to beat this but because I can't then its the games fault".....oh wait I am still in that first category.

[Demon]

yes, in many games developers make bosses witn immune for most of attacks.
and they never say u about "boss immune for stun/blind etc" before u make first shot.

its kind of bad design, if u dont know about what u cant use from standart all-campain-work-well abilities.

games with "first try always die" rule - bad. but if "fist some attempts u stuck in engine bugs" - baddest. i see 200+ names in developers/testers/etc - they all miss so many various bugs ? or they just work few minutes on this game ?

bosses immunity without warning to player - bad dev style.

[fenlander]

Never had an issue with the game swapping to a default weapon on my mage. Always had power bolt equipped then had to switch to the special gun when the ghosts appeared. I knew about having to use that special shotgun before the mission because it tells you that is the only way to kill the ghost bugs.

Jessica is tough because she is the Shaman who is summoning the queen. To really hurt her you need to damage the strange spikes that give her powers.

Yes Harliquin is weak, as for Ghost I found him to be decent.

Insects are immune to concusion and it is a trait Jessica also has. Try fire or explosions.

You need to kill Jessica very quickly or you are going to get swamped by bugs. Concentrate all fire on her as much as possible and ignore the insects.

[fredingue]

Originally posted by Haborym:

Originally posted by Fleischtorte:

Bad GUI and you blame the user...

And? Your point?

Spam much buddy? You added absolutely nothing of value to the conversaion.

Don't blame people who mock me : i know i deserve it so far as :

1. true i should pay more attention...but each time i miss some AP because of this...(the default choice of the weakest weapon is more annoying, i allways fire first shots with my wrong weapon...). And i prefer to keep it in my inventory just in case i need to do an ultimate shoot while i have no time to reload my main riffle.

2. about concussion grenades : for sure i dunno how they do work. I just supposed they spreaded some incapacitative gaz...

3. (from fenlander) "Jessica is tough because she is the Shaman who is summoning the queen. To really hurt her you need to damage the strange spikes that give her powers. "

Strange as, of course, i tried to hit the spikes with guns, aegis gun, magery and grenades : "immune" for all (or i missed something)

But, on a general basis, i approve Demon's last comment "bosses immunity without warning to player - bad dev style."

My only experience as a modder was Neverwinternight 1 : a mod like "the bug shaman" would have been rated 1/5" with user's comments like "So you did not use your brain to make a real good final to your campain, you just overflow the players with OP mobs. No wits, just firepower..."

I say it again : i appreciated the campain A LOT, despite some flaws. But this end really disgusted me.

And a last one from Y4uhittaz : " That last one kills me, you really are an idiot."

1. I allways tell myself that developpers have to bear in mind that some guys who will play their mod :
a) have a very low QI : so when unexpected things happen, some clues should be given somewhere
b) be children : with less experience. most children never had a military training...despite things change with Army-action FPS games...Most know nothing about economics, behaviourism and so on...
c) be of foreign culture : so the vocabulary should not be too complicated...

Am l an idiot compared to my basic tactics in this run ? From the start i had decided to concentrate fire on Jessica, trying to get her with the less of my guy in mobs LOS.

Wasn't it the good way to do it ? Well, it took me 4 tries to succeed, doing about each time the same things. But you can't provide Harlequin and Sir Miss-a-lot Ghost to "missed missed missed"

FINALLY : thanks for this feedback and for the info about Harlequin and Jessica (no, i'm not a pen and paper Shadowrun player but i intend to buy 5th edition core book set as soon as available in my country)

Have fun, buddies :p

[St. Haborym]

Concussion, from the Latin concutere ("to shake violently")[1] or concussus ("action of striking together"), Basically it uses shockwaves to incapacitate.

Also I just want to add that I was mocking no one.

[fredingue]

I know, you pointed to someone that he is not really giving answers but trolling.

On a general basis, when i post i accept some guys around to flame, troll or mock, provided that it is linked to the subject and using humour :)

[Dwagon]

Originally posted by Haborym:

2. What do gas masks have to do with concussion grenades? They're CONCUSSION grenades, not GAS grenades. They use concussive force to incapacitate, not chemical agents.

Pity they weren't Stingers or Neurostun grenades from the PnP material as those used a combination of rubber balls, flash, and gas to stun. Very handy.