DLC Berlin will have any cost?? or it will be free?

[Bizarroskull]

what title says

[TrasherNL]

Publicado originalmente por vDark Eaglev:

The backers at the right levels will get it for free as well as the collector's edition I believe. But I doubt the DLC will cost more that $10 seeing as how cheap the game is in the first place. But we backers are the reason we're getting Berlin pretty early and if you don't think HBS deserves the money for making this game don't buy the DLC.

Fully agree you should get it for free :)

I doubt it's going to be $10 or less though. The engine isn't that great and I'm pretty sure most of the money went into content (art/story/levels/etc). If it's going to be a better experience than they must also enhance the engine and the editor, thus I believe it's going to be closer to $12-$15. That'll be a bit expensive, compared to launch cost, and I fear it's going to end after this DLC.

It's my opinion and I hope they prove me wrong :) But the engine is just terrible.

[DarkCarnage]

Publicado originalmente por TrasherNL:

Publicado originalmente por vDark Eaglev:

The backers at the right levels will get it for free as well as the collector's edition I believe. But I doubt the DLC will cost more that $10 seeing as how cheap the game is in the first place. But we backers are the reason we're getting Berlin pretty early and if you don't think HBS deserves the money for making this game don't buy the DLC.

Fully agree you should get it for free :)

I doubt it's going to be $10 or less though. The engine isn't that great and I'm pretty sure most of the money went into content (art/story/levels/etc). If it's going to be a better experience than they must also enhance the engine and the editor, thus I believe it's going to be closer to $12-$15. That'll be a bit expensive, compared to launch cost, and I fear it's going to end after this DLC.

It's my opinion and I hope they prove me wrong :) But the engine is just terrible.

i do not think he said we getting ti for free , but that only certain poeple are, backers and some pre-orders ones.

[deadsanta]

Publicado originalmente por Mr Windblade:

Publicado originalmente por Evil Vyse:

What exactly is the point of playing a character if the world doesn't give a toss?

Does anything change if you act like a mercenary or as an avenging friend? Nope.
Does being nice to certain characters make any change in the long term? No.

You accuse me of playing for rewards? My critique is minor rewards is ALL you get for dialogue choices! You get no character building or world building or relationships. The story doesn't change one bit. Nothing happens!
At best, like I said, you get some variation within a mission.

Yes, precisely. Certain parts of the game vary because of your character's choices, attributes, etiquettes, and race. That's how you know you've made decisions that matter. Thank you for your understanding.

No they don't matter. Imagine a true branching dialogue, it looks like a tree, right? This game's dialgue looks like a branch that folds back into the trunk, and that's one weird looking tree. You have a few options to click on that give you an illusion of choice, but there is none, since the game is on rails, all paths, even short term ones, lead back to the same result.

Just speed click "1" and "enter" for all your dialgue in your second playthrough and tell me after you do that how you have a consequencial interaction with the game, since you arriive at the end sequence with almost no change besides a few extra nuyen or karma points.

[DarkCarnage]

Publicado originalmente por deadsanta:

Publicado originalmente por Mr Windblade:

Yes, precisely. Certain parts of the game vary because of your character's choices, attributes, etiquettes, and race. That's how you know you've made decisions that matter. Thank you for your understanding.

No they don't matter. Imagine a true branching dialogue, it looks like a tree, right? This game's dialgue looks like a branch that folds back into the trunk, and that's one weird looking tree. You have a few options to click on that give you an illusion of choice, but there is none, since the game is on rails, all paths, even short term ones, lead back to the same result.

Just speed click "1" and "enter" for all your dialgue in your second playthrough and tell me after you do that how you have a consequencial interaction with the game, since you arriive at the end sequence with almost no change besides a few extra nuyen or karma points.

some old rpg where like that they branched out then looped back on themselves. some options did not matter, but in thee nd 80% of odl RPG really forced you to a single end no matter waht you do, you will go to location x, you will fight this boss, then you might get a option to do X,Y or Z. games ends.

[Insaniac99]

Publicado originalmente por deadsanta:

Publicado originalmente por Mr Windblade:

Yes, precisely. Certain parts of the game vary because of your character's choices, attributes, etiquettes, and race. That's how you know you've made decisions that matter. Thank you for your understanding.

No they don't matter. Imagine a true branching dialogue, it looks like a tree, right? This game's dialgue looks like a branch that folds back into the trunk, and that's one weird looking tree. You have a few options to click on that give you an illusion of choice, but there is none, since the game is on rails, all paths, even short term ones, lead back to the same result.

Just speed click "1" and "enter" for all your dialgue in your second playthrough and tell me after you do that how you have a consequencial interaction with the game, since you arriive at the end sequence with almost no change besides a few extra nuyen or karma points.

This is patently false given the dialogue for saving the seamstresses union that most players didn't find.

Honestly you should look at Walking dead. While it is an amazing game with lots of options and a widely aclaimed story, the same can be said about it's story. Once you look behind the curtain the magic is ruined and all choices seem inconsquential. Even KOTOR just rejoins the path without the things you do making a major difference until the very end.

[TrasherNL]

Publicado originalmente por DarkCarnage:

i do not think he said we getting ti for free , but that only certain poeple are, backers and some pre-orders ones.

Wow. Didn't know people would be able to misunderstand that. I was reacting to the poster. a backer. Ofcourse I understand non-backers will not get it for free..

Maybe I feel the one who wrote the first story should be forced to work for free, because it was a bit lame, but the art was really good.

[Insaniac99]

Publicado originalmente por DarkCarnage:

Publicado originalmente por deadsanta:

No they don't matter. Imagine a true branching dialogue, it looks like a tree, right? This game's dialgue looks like a branch that folds back into the trunk, and that's one weird looking tree. You have a few options to click on that give you an illusion of choice, but there is none, since the game is on rails, all paths, even short term ones, lead back to the same result.

Just speed click "1" and "enter" for all your dialgue in your second playthrough and tell me after you do that how you have a consequencial interaction with the game, since you arriive at the end sequence with almost no change besides a few extra nuyen or karma points.

some old rpg where like that they branched out then looped back on themselves. some options did not matter, but in thee nd 80% of odl RPG really forced you to a single end no matter waht you do, you will go to location x, you will fight this boss, then you might get a option to do X,Y or Z. games ends.

yep, Fallout 1,2,3,NV, & BoS; KOTOR1&2; Arcanum; Mass Effect 1,2, & 3; I could go on, but most of the classic games had you on rails, they just hid it a little better.

Fallout you needed to go to points in order because gear and level meant the other enemies would squash you; going off the track meant lots of save scumming then getting back on track with better gear or after taking a shortcut.

[TrasherNL]

Publicado originalmente por Insaniac99:

yep, Fallout 1,2,3,NV, & BoS; KOTOR1&2; Arcanum; Mass Effect 1,2, & 3; I could go on, but most of the classic games had you on rails, they just hid it a little better.

Fallout you needed to go to points in order because gear and level meant the other enemies would squash you; going off the track meant lots of save scumming then getting back on track with better gear or after taking a shortcut.

Oh man. I greatly enjoyed that kind of branching. Like, in Fallout, I don't even care about the main story and go around doing my stuffs.

Don't even go there defending your point :P

[Achi]

Publicado originalmente por glock30owner:

Publicado originalmente por Mr Windblade:

Never played, what's it like?

Publicado originalmente por Achi:

Berlin DLC is free to backers. The rest will have to purchase it. Price point, from what I have heard, is going to be $5-10.
But seriously, why should they release it for free to everyone who bought the game. You bought the game and you got it. DLC is DLC and it is not the kind of content that should have been part of the main game to begin with. Yes, the main campaign is pretty short, but no one promised 30+ hours of content. If you informed yourself before making a purchase, you would have been aware of that. If you just bought the game on a whim, then you really can't complain, because that was the risk you took.

This is the reason we MUST settle for 30 hours of game play or less. Fanbois deriding legitimate complaints and spending $60 or more for incomplete games and DLC.

Am I a fanboy for stating the info given by the devs? If you purchase an indie game, don't you take a solid look at it, first? I can understand when people have complaints about the game, but running about claiming to have been cheated, because the game didn't deliver to their expectations can only go so far. If you buy something on a whim, you take a risk.
HBS has been very open about the scope of the project from the get go. youtube is full of dev interviews where they show game footage and discuss these issues.

[Matroska]

Publicado originalmente por Evil Vyse:

You accuse me of playing for rewards? My critique is minor rewards is ALL you get for dialogue choices! You get no character building or world building or relationships. The story doesn't change one bit. Nothing happens!
At best, like I said, you get some variation within a mission.

So saving the life of Coyote's cousin doesn't count as a change? Not only do you save a life, her reaction to you later as well as her behaviour for a while after that changes. In fact, I don't even think you have to do that mission if you don't want, you're given the choice but I've always said "yes" so I don't know if you get forced into it.

There are little things like how you can get the tramp his sleeping bag back from the crime scene, or not. It doesn't give you a physical reward, it's just a RPing thing. This time I didn't let Jessica keep the photo of her and Sam, so I'm going to check if that's mentioned again. The villain at the end can be dealt with in different ways.

Really, what this game lacks is sidequests, though that isn't necessarily THAT bad considering that most RPGs become hilarious due to the fact that your racing to save the world/your sister/the princess and yet you spend weeks and weeks helping old ladies get apples for their pie, or finding a little boy's lost pet. Sidequests aside, the vast majority of RPGs have no real alteration to the game world or overall plot due to you choices, other that TW2.

[Ryu_Sheng]

Publicado originalmente por Kingslayer:

Publicado originalmente por Evil Vyse:

You accuse me of playing for rewards? My critique is minor rewards is ALL you get for dialogue choices! You get no character building or world building or relationships. The story doesn't change one bit. Nothing happens!
At best, like I said, you get some variation within a mission.

So saving the life of Coyote's cousin doesn't count as a change? Not only do you save a life, her reaction to you later as well as her behaviour for a while after that changes. In fact, I don't even think you have to do that mission if you don't want, you're given the choice but I've always said "yes" so I don't know if you get forced into it.

There are little things like how you can get the tramp his sleeping bag back from the crime scene, or not. It doesn't give you a physical reward, it's just a RPing thing. This time I didn't let Jessica keep the photo of her and Sam, so I'm going to check if that's mentioned again. The villain at the end can be dealt with in different ways.

Really, what this game lacks is sidequests, though that isn't necessarily THAT bad considering that most RPGs become hilarious due to the fact that your racing to save the world/your sister/the princess and yet you spend weeks and weeks helping old ladies get apples for their pie, or finding a little boy's lost pet. Sidequests aside, the vast majority of RPGs have no real alteration to the game world or overall plot due to you choices, other that TW2.

Thing about side quests is if they're done right, they can actually help with the feel and tension of the main quests. For example, if the main story is the world is on it's way to doom, the side quests can be built around it. Helping a smal town evacuate the war zone, build it's defences. Take out early strike teams, lead a sortie behind enemy lines etc etc. There is so much that can be done with side quests without it hampering the main quest. Or, as in the case of skyrim, pausing the main story while you go off do your own thing and come back 20years later and pick up right you left off.

Problem is this sort of integration requires a VERY good script writer, but also the determination on the dev.'s side to put a finite limitation on the game. So that as time rolls on you may do side quests, but the world plods on and things come to a conclusion. This sort of ballance would be hard to make, but would make a bloody awesome game if they did it.

For me i'd love to see that sort game, but after you've finished the main game it essentially becomes an open world with endless stuff going on. We know this is possible because way back in the day they did it with NWN and it's unending dungeon mod

[Jackrabbit_V6/ RSProduxx]

18€ for the initial game, i have no problems with paying a few €,- more for the next campaign...if they keep up the great stortelling, it´s way worth every ♥♥♥♥♥♥ Nuyen :)

[Kozzy]

Publicado originalmente por auntielala:

Berlin will need to be significant won't it? If it's just props, textures and the like couldn't people just release some UGC on here and share it? So that implies if HBS wants to actually make some cash they'll need to implement something to restrict that ability... Engine tuning perhaps?

What I mean is... It must be something larger and worth waiting for, yes?

They have said in an interview it will be a campaign set in Berlin (along as the assets that come along with that for the modders/editor) and it will be less story focused and more open so to speak. Id expect a campaign like the first one just less story and more open world-ish.

[zaknafein196]

Since they are releasing Berlin late October, I imagine they will like to make a longer and more open campaign as lots of people (rightly) complain DMS is short.

Think we can view Berlin as an expansion or Bethesda style DLC not only as something that will add more tilesets.

[Abubussto]

Publicado originalmente por Gunth:

Let the nickel and dime game commence.

I want to play too. If I had a nickel for everytime commence was used in a sentence, how good at this game am I?