True Form Spirit (SPOILER)

[IKerensky]

Hi guys,

did you notice your game is called Shadowrun ? and do you know that in Shadowrun, true form spirit ARE NOT INVULNERABLE TO EVERYTHING !!

They are vulnerable to : focus weapons, adept chi powers, hand to hand or melee fighting (very resilient but still not invulnerable), other spirits attacks, spells with no physical components...

So please rewrite your Inner Sanctum encounter to make it CANON and have True Spirits that are true spirits, just add reinforcment and that is all.

BYW, Invulnerable true spirit doesnt make for a better or more tense encounter, it make for a simpler healing kit spamming boring encounter...

[Raz//RIP Kentaro Miura]

They did it for story reasons(as you will find out soon).
Is it a good excuse?
No but it is what it is.

[sidnitzerglobin]

So they are in fact invulnerable to everything in SRR? Just have to wait them out til a certain someone does a certain thing w/ another thing?

[Vilda]

Bacteria will be there...

I ve got a little issue with that too... But frankly hacking the doors while my team held the line against invincible enemy, kneecaping them in every limb... That was cool. And rule of cool is rule of cool. :)

[GothQueenSupreme]

well during that mission you are simply supposed to hack the doors and get out and then later on you will get a weapon and an explanation of why the bugs are there why they can't be damaged and how you will damage them yea that fight sucks but for the purpose of the story it wasn't to bad.

[IKerensky]

Sorry but for me it was bad... and boring.

The interest of the story is to be consistent with the Shadowrun main story. Insect Spirits is no small deal, a lot of the game litterature is about them, they are a huge part of the settings. Implementing them wrong just to be lazy is bad. They are pretty dangerous the way they are, no need to make them otherway.

For me it is just sloppy story-writting.... Far more tense would have been to fight wave of true form spirits, because when you enter an hive inner sanctum that is what you got : WAVES, not just 2 immortals spirits.

Also thoses spirits are immortal but pretty dumb and with no access to astral space because they cannot pursue the heroes to the back alley to finish them... as I said SLOPPY STORY-WRITING !

[Isaax]

i didnt find it boring, i left 3 goons holding back the tide while Me and Mrs 'i think im a better decker than you' sorted the escape route. I imagined a lot of arguements going on there, because i was obviously the most talented decker in the room

[IKerensky]

It was boring because there was no risk involved... the combat just take time, burn a bit of healing kit (as I doesnt have heal spell) and that is all. The fact that the 2 spirits are invulnerable in spirits form doesnt make them for dangerous, I blinded one, killed the other, wait a bit, rince and repeat... With a heal spell I could have done that litterally for HOURS without breaking a sweat.

Now if the spirits have been true form spirits (and real one) in a real hive configuration, each 2 rounds I would have faced more and more spirits until I was overwhelmed or managed to run. 2 invulnerable spirits againt 4 runners and 2 drones isn't close to tense... Endless wave of very strong spirits, each one more numerous than the previous one, NOW that is tense, and thematics... What do you think Knight Errands face at Chicago ? 2 invulnerable spirits ? and the guys from 2XS ? And the one team that go to free Mercury ? 2 invulnerable spirits or a hords of very tough and angry true spirits ?

[Isaax]

The answer is simple dude, open the editor and show em how its done :)

Edit: thats what the devs wanted all along btw

[Zorlond]

Keep on going, and eventually you'll run into the real issue with invulnerable true form spirits. In fact, it becomes a balance-breaking issue. In games, regardless of genre, you expect a steady increase in difficulty all the way to the end.

You do not expect to have a straightforward walk with no incapacities at all until you hit That One Battle[tvtropes.org]. That's balance breakage.

[IKerensky]

Did you play Shadowrun ? the RPG ?

Do you know how dangerous and difficult are a fight with True Spirits (heck even Summoned Spirits) are in the rules ?

The spirits in this game (Shaman and all) are just push over that you can dis-invoke with a few shotgun rounds. Frankly there is a lot to be told about how the magic is supposed to work in Shadowrun and how it doesnt compute with what the game offer.

Where is the Astral space ? Astral space is the corner stone of Shadowrun/Earthdawn magical and world theory. But in this computer re-enactment it is just dismissed entirely. Where are the Magician Spirits ? where are the Focus ? Where is the Drain ? Where is the effing Shadowrun magic ???

Where is SHADOWRUN in Shadowrun return ?

[Vilda]

Originally posted by IKerensky:

Did you play Shadowrun ? the RPG ?

Do you know how dangerous and difficult are a fight with True Spirits (heck even Summoned Spirits) are in the rules ?

Eeee... which edition that would be? Bacuse 4th? Stick-n-Shock.

[IKerensky]

Originally posted by Vilda:

Originally posted by IKerensky:

Did you play Shadowrun ? the RPG ?

Do you know how dangerous and difficult are a fight with True Spirits (heck even Summoned Spirits) are in the rules ?

Eeee... which edition that would be? Bacuse 4th? Stick-n-Shock.

You can killl everything and everyone fa too easily with stick and shock in the 4th, that is the most owerpowred ammunition ever. I dont think any GM allow it as written, except perhaps the most purple mohawk ones.

[Bakshara]

Shadowrun Returns:
There is my character, Loci, he has:
Street Sweeper & a Beretta Model 70.

There is the NPC, Coyote , she has:
Remington 990 & a Rugger Super Warhawk.

We start in Beneath The Brotherhood.
If one of us misses I click on Restart Level. No exceptions!
One shot with the Street Sweeper & it's empty.
Then I spend my Karma:
Nine on Body an four on Ranged Combat. That leaves me with one point of karma.
We go into the Full-fill Your Purpose room & get a Data Pad & a Basic Medkit.

We then enter the Members Only area.
Kill two Brotherhood Followers, get the key, & Brotherhood Money Records.
There is a Brotherhood Gunner & Brotherhood Mage.
We kill the Brotherhood Gunner first.
I move to the left side of the room & Coyote to the Right.
Then kill the Brotherhood Mage.
Then Coyote goes back and gets an Advanced Medkit.
Loci goes and gets two Cavalier Frag Grenades.
Now Loci & Coyote both have two Cavalier Frag Grenades.

We make sure we are all healed up. Then talk to Marie-Louse, “What kind of noises?”
“Did you see a woman here? Human? Early 40's maybe?”

“Okay time to go.”
Jessica Watts, “Well life isn't eternal life, but it'll do.”
“The Universal Brotherhood is a cult, not a family.”
“Jessica you're not well. You need help.”

“Marie, Just stay behind us.”
“What about Intrusion countermeasures?”

We kill two Brotherhood Followers, & two True Form Workers come out.
We focus on one at a time. I shoot with my Beretta and Coyote shoots with her Remington.

When the True Form Workers' life gets to 65 or lower they are immune to the shots that we are firing at them. At that point we back up and throw Grenades at them. Then they turn yellow and re-spon.

How can we kill the True Form Workers?

[Procrastinating Gamer]

Originally posted by Bakshara:

How can we kill the True Form Workers?

In this mission, you can't. Hold them off, use a decker to get into the Matrix (should be a JackPoint to the north, in a side-room) and have them work their way through to get the doors open so you can escape. Can't say more without spoilers.