Is Melee viable?

[HotSoup]

I've got 4 points in Melee and finding it less useful than my 2 points in pistols. I was hoping for knockbacks and stuns or something but really I'm finding it hard to kill anything and just opening myself up to no cover.

I'm still early on but thinking of re-rolliing. Anyone have anything positive to say about Melee?

[Emil]

Originally posted by Slappiz:

Except this is not true... Chi focus gives 2 melee attacks with a melee weapon and Chi onslaught gives 3 melee attacks with a melee weapon.

I am finding no documentation of the existence of those abilities. I see them now mentioned (although cut off by a UI bug) in the chi casting levelup menu.
How much AP do they require?[/quote]

Same as 2 or 3 shots with a rifle.

Originally posted by TT:

Learn to have a discussion like an adult.
The game is buggy (UI bugs hiding information due to it not fitting in the screen) and poorly documented. It is possible I made a mistake, in which case I will admit as such. Your personal attacks are uncalled for.

So what's immature with me saying that you lack knowledge and that your statement isn't accurate? Also you get a free attack/spell from adept called quick strike wich lets you attack for 0 AP

[Emil]

Originally posted by octa:

I've got 4 points in Melee and finding it less useful than my 2 points in pistols. I was hoping for knockbacks and stuns or something but really I'm finding it hard to kill anything and just opening myself up to no cover.

I'm still early on but thinking of re-rolliing. Anyone have anything positive to say about Melee?

Invest some points in adept until you get Chi focus and your melee will cut everything down. This requires a melee weapon but I assume that's what you are skilling?

[Brewskin]

Been experimenting with some builds today, and came across this breakdown of the abilities, may prove useful for some of you lot.

http://supremegamer.hubpages.com/hub/shadowrun-returns-level-up-guide

[talt]

Originally posted by Slappiz:

Except this is not true... Chi focus gives 2 melee attacks with a melee weapon and Chi onslaught gives 3 melee attacks with a melee weapon.

Learn the game before you make a statement.

I just tested it out.

Chi focus is only available for WEAPONS and NOT unarmed.

It costs 2AP to use, it makes 2 attacks vs 1 opponent with with an unspecified bonus to crit chance.
Compare to regular slash which uses 1AP and gives +1 damage. Regular attack also doesn't waste AP if you manage to kill the target on the first strike with a crit.

So, its utter ♥♥♥♥ and it doesn't really affect the equations at all whatsoever in any way shape or form.

Originally posted by Slappiz:

So what's immature with me saying that you lack knowledge and that your statement isn't accurate?

1. It was how you said it. The whole idea is to share knowledge in a civilized manner because this game is very poorly documented.
2. You were wrong.

[talt]

Originally posted by Slappiz:

Also you get a free attack/spell from adept called quick strike wich lets you attack for 0 AP

Where are you getting all those KP to both max out melee and invest heavily into chi casting simultaneously?
But lets look at quick strike now that we proved that chi focus is junk.

v1.0.4 (latest non beta) is a 0AP attack that can be used once every 2 rounds to deal 6 points of damage.
v1.1 beta massivesly improves this into a +6 bonus damage attack instead of a mere 6 points of damage. If it specifies a limitation to melee only weapons than it does so in the part that is cut off by the UI. (and there is such a part)

the v1.0.4 version sucks. The v1.1 version is not bad actually... IF you can somehow dig up enough KP for it (you can't). And still does not compare to guns. Also, a melee samurai is better off going after haste than quickstrike (haste is actually 14 KP cheaper)

While the gun samurai is spraying 24 AoE damage per AP.
The melee samurai is doing 9 (str) + 1 (slash) + 6 (weapon) damage = 16 per AP.
Where chi casting lets him add a free 22 damage attack every other round.

[Emil]

Originally posted by TT:

I just tested it out.

Chi focus is only available for WEAPONS and NOT unarmed.

It costs 2AP to use, it makes 2 attacks vs 1 opponent with with an unspecified bonus to crit chance.
Compare to regular slash which uses 1AP and gives +1 damage. Regular attack also doesn't waste AP if you manage to kill the target on the first strike with a crit.

So, its utter ♥♥♥♥ and it doesn't really affect the equations at all whatsoever in any way shape or form.

Except you HAVE better hit chance with chi focus than a single attack, and I also think that the crit bonus is increased, I find myself critting with Chi focus frequently compared to normal attacks.

Originally posted by TT:

1. It was how you said it. The whole idea is to share knowledge in a civilized manner because this game is very poorly documented.
2. You were wrong.

1. Or it was how you read it?
2. No I wasen't

[talt]

Ok, did more playtesting.
That extra round to activate killer hands add unacceptable delay in combat and really screws you over compared to melee weapon.
Melee and weapons both benefit from the completely undocumented function of draining AP on strike. They still deal much less damage, you are squishly as heck, and you have to run close to enemies (thus giving them a big bonus to gunfire hit chance), but you can lock down a single enemy with the AP damage.
Trolls are pretty much necessary as the +60 bonus HP they get (undocumented) really helps.

Still, melee is so far the absolute hardest build I have made (I got human mage (first char), rigger elf who dabbles in decking, gun samurai elf who focuses on SMG, and melee troll focusing on weapons)

[talt]

Originally posted by Slappiz:

Except you HAVE better hit chance with chi focus than a single attack, and I also think that the crit bonus is increased, I find myself critting with Chi focus frequently compared to normal attacks.

If it increases hit chance its an undocumented function, regardless your to hit chance is 99% with any weapon in the game.
I explicitly stated that the game explicitly states that the crit bonus increases.

Originally posted by Slappiz:

2. No I wasen't

Yes you were, you claimed it allows 2 strikes per AP, when in fact it costs 2 AP for those 2 strikes. Meaning it does notrhing.
It does mean you waste a second strike if the first kills the enemy, and it means that you sacrifice +1 damage for +??? to crit chance. which might be useful situationally but doesn't solve how bad melee is.
Also, you do not have the KP to spend on chi adept AND conjuration (haste), AND melee.
So, choosing between chi and conjuration, conjuration wins because haste is awesome.

[Emil]

Originally posted by TT:

Your hit chance is 99% with any weapon in the game.
I explicitly stated that the game explicitly states that the crit bonus increases.

And when do you have 99% chance to hit?

Originally posted by TT:

Yes you were, you claimed it allows 2 strikes per AP, when in fact it costs 2 AP for those 2 strikes. Meaning it does notrhing.
It does mean you waste a second strike if the first kills the enemy, and it means that you sacrifice +1 damage for +??? to crit chance. which might be useful situationally but doesn't solve how bad melee is.
Also, you do not have the KP to spend on chi adept AND conjuration (haste), AND melee.
So, choosing between chi and conjuration, conjuration wins because haste is awesome.

I never claimed it to cost 1 AP for 2 attacks, I told you it costs as much as using a double bullet attack refering to a rifle.

Then don't attack the enemy if you know u can kill it with 1 attack ?
What does haste have to do with this?

[talt]

Originally posted by Slappiz:

And when do you have 99% chance to hit?

Somewhere around rank 7 you get 99% to hit anything with anything.

Originally posted by Slappiz:

I never claimed it to cost 1 AP for 2 attacks, I told you it costs as much as using a double bullet attack refering to a rifle.

Then don't attack the enemy if you know u can kill it with 1 attack ?
What does haste have to do with this?

So you replied to my post where I explicitly discuss how SMGs shoot 2 bullets per AP and discussing damage per AP by saying double attack and assuming I know you meant rifle double attack (after I explicitly said rifles are crud) and that it costs 2AP?

Also, after I went and showed the math on how melee do the absolute worst damage you went and cited this as the reason why I am wrong and that melee in fact does the best damage (so you claimed), yet this does not improve their damage potential at all

[Haydn]

If you're meleeing, I haven't tried it, but Combat Adept seems like a good idea.

[NSilver89]

Good Lord TT, take that stick out your ass.

Melee is NOT bad. In fact, having played both a ranged gun samurai, and a melee sword samurai, I prefer the melee one by far. Sure, my stats are more average, and thus I do not excel particularly much in anything - but I drain AP on attacks, my increased body gives me more HP and a better chance of halving damage (You did remember Body does this, right?), and just generally being broken in single combat.

Nothing the game throws at me stands a chance alone. NOTHING. The moment I start hitting them, they are lucky to get more than 1 attack off per turn.

Now, the ranged was fun. But it was far more tense and dangerous, because just a few unlucky rolls would kill me. I was an elf, with 4 body, and if someone got lucky, I was reduced from full HP to dead in a single enemys turn at the end-game. This is a character that had 11 Quickness and 9 dodge - you can always get unlucky. Being a burly melee guy with more pumped body, means I can take those hits, luck be damned, and once I get close, I can lock down people. So you pretty SMG better kill me before I get there, or you shouldn't expect to get out of there alive.

Also, what the hell are you talking about with haste? I might be completely wrong here, since I'm just redownloading it again after a long break - But I have never had Haste on my MC. I always make sure to take along someone that has, and make them buff me with it. No reason to waste Karma or AP on that myself.

You sound like a WoW player. If you want this kind of min/maxing, you are playing the wrong game.

[NSilver89]

Would also like to add that Riggers still beat Gun Samurais in terms of pure damage. Writing them off because of a bug that occasionally happens (At least to me), is just stupid.

[talt]

Originally posted by shin.aquarius:

Would also like to add that Riggers still beat Gun Samurais in terms of pure damage. Writing them off because of a bug that occasionally happens (At least to me), is just stupid.

I mentioned the bug in passing, I said their biggest problem was:

problem is that in the official campaign the enemies ALWAYS get a surprise round against you and you around allowed to activate the drones and send them ahead on your own volition

next

Good Lord TT, take that stick out your ♥♥♥.

You first
You can start by explaining to me how mathematically comparing claims and pointing out falsehoods is having a stick up ones bum

Melee is NOT bad.

It is mathematically proven to do the least amount of damage.
AND it is the squishiest damage dealer, more squishy than even mages.
AND you can't kill enemies from across the room you actually have to close in on them which wastes turns and actions and lets them shoot you (and hit, because you have no quickness)

How is that NOT bad?

I drain AP on attacks

Congrats, you are the second person to mention this. The first person was me.
Somehow every other pro melee guy made the argument that melee deals the most damage and not a single one of them managed to mention that they drain AP on attack.

I was the only person in the thread to mention this and I explicitly pointed out that this is an undocumented feature that is never mentioned anywhere within the game. The only way to figure this out is to actually play melee. So you and me are probably the only two here who do.

[Chekita]

Melee is possible but in my opinion not worth the effort. If you play more quest you tend to realize that melee needs more karma, more money for spells (adept), when you can use that to diversify your character for more situations, not only combat. With little karma you can kill most enemies with 2ap with rifle, or shotgun. Download a lvl content and try both builds, or just play trying both. Ranged is more efficient, melee is harder but very interesting to try. Note that patches and new powers were made for adept for this reason, because it is not very efficient comparing with ranged.