*spoiler* Schrodinger's Clockwork

[Talon]

Clockwork is a decker referenced throughout the game. Winters says he has gone missing in a DVD recording made just prior to hiring your team for the opening mission. Alice later says he was among the deckers killed by APEX. But Clockwork posts on the Shadowlands BBS occasionally between these 2 events and no one finds that strange given he's supposedly already missing/dead.

Then, if you free APEX, a thread shows up on Shadowlands where another decker claims they were with Clockwork when APEX, now free, killed him. APEX, posing as Clockwork, posts in that thread but is discovered due to its lack of knowing Clockwork's signature catchphrase. (Which is another problem given it retained enough of Monika's memories to know what Eiger told her but doesn't retain enough of Clockwork to know how to properly impersonate him on Shadowlands?)

So the obvious question is...when did Clockwork actually die? Are there multiple deckers going by that alias? Winters and Alice say he's missing/dead, he's still posting on Shadowlands as normal, then APEX is seen killing him and tries to impersonate him on Shadowlands but fails. If Clockwork were already dead prior to this event, those earlier posts on Shadowlands would have also been faked by APEX but they couldn't have been because APEX didn't understand the catchphrase Clockwork always used which is how he was discovered in the end.

Am I missing something here or does this make no logical sense?

[Phoenix7786]

I was wondering the same. I think it's an oversight, just like still seeing Absinthe in the shop even though Aljernon says she is doing an errand.

[Ixal]

I noticed that too. The timeline here does not make sense.

Btw, the Clockwork in the game is obviously not the Clockwork from SR lore.

[steelcoresoviet]

One resolved issue; APEX has eaten dozens of deckers. Only Monika caused a personality/ memory shift. This may be because of her proximity, or skill level.

[Phoenix7786]

Assuming APEX isn't full of ♥♥♥♥ and saying whatever it needs to say to get you to do what it wants. Try freeing APEX but not giving it control of Firewing and he'll give you a double sucker-punch.

Now, I CAN say that IF you free APEX and IF you give control of Firewing he WILL actually resist the goverment's attempts to take over the F-state, forcing a truce. Eventually though, he ends up in what I believe is South America. So it's debatable if he really sticks to his word.

Based on talking to Firewing with a high intelligence/Academic Etiquette, coupled with Aljernon's response if you free her, I am led to believe freeing her is the right thing. She seemed like she was having a rage-induced meltdown, but you can convince her the world has not fallen by telling her about the Elven nations or Amazonia.

[Sai Kyouji]

As a shadowrunner, I really could careless about F-state ideal, with exception of my own, or racism.

As a great man once said, helping the Earth as a whole might do little for the people that you actually know.

Seriously, Dr. Adrian ;v what difference does it make that an elf or a human hoards the property for their family than a dragon doing it. We are still poor.

[Cypris Melaenis]

Originally posted by Randy:

Try freeing APEX but not giving it control of Firewing and he'll give you a double sucker-punch.

I'm scared to ask, what that might be? Since I hate AI-archetypes like this, I never planned to free it.

[Ixal]

Originally posted by pfhned:

Originally posted by Randy:

Try freeing APEX but not giving it control of Firewing and he'll give you a double sucker-punch.

I'm scared to ask, what that might be? Since I hate AI-archetypes like this, I never planned to free it.

He gives you a call and tells you to be "very afraid" when entering the Matrix.

[Cypris Melaenis]

Originally posted by Ixal:

Originally posted by pfhned:

I'm scared to ask, what that might be? Since I hate AI-archetypes like this, I never planned to free it.

He gives you a call and tells you to be "very afraid" when entering the Matrix.

Lol, I suppose I'll never set him free =p


By the way

Originally posted by Talon:

Clockwork is a decker referenced throughout the game. Winters says he has gone missing in a DVD recording made just prior to hiring your team for the opening mission. Alice later says he was among the deckers killed by APEX. But Clockwork posts on the Shadowlands BBS occasionally between these 2 events and no one finds that strange given he's supposedly already missing/dead.

Then, if you free APEX, a thread shows up on Shadowlands where another decker claims they were with Clockwork when APEX, now free, killed him. APEX, posing as Clockwork, posts in that thread but is discovered due to its lack of knowing Clockwork's signature catchphrase. (Which is another problem given it retained enough of Monika's memories to know what Eiger told her but doesn't retain enough of Clockwork to know how to properly impersonate him on Shadowlands?)

So the obvious question is...when did Clockwork actually die? Are there multiple deckers going by that alias? Winters and Alice say he's missing/dead, he's still posting on Shadowlands as normal, then APEX is seen killing him and tries to impersonate him on Shadowlands but fails. If Clockwork were already dead prior to this event, those earlier posts on Shadowlands would have also been faked by APEX but they couldn't have been because APEX didn't understand the catchphrase Clockwork always used which is how he was discovered in the end.

Am I missing something here or does this make no logical sense?

Talon, maybe you should report this to Devs? And they'll fix it somehow.

[Philip Marlowe]

Respectfully, something that insignificant can be easily edited using the editor, as simple as typing text on Microsoft Word. If I didn't think it was obtrusive I'd upload my own experimenting, but I'm afraid I'd flood the Workshop with redundant DMS and Dragonfall "UGCs"* with such minor modifications.

Just sayin', 'cause I've really been having fun playing with the campaigns through the editor. :)

*I can never take credit from HBS, the actual devs.

Addendum: I believe I was mistaken regarding my statement on editing conversation on the official campaigns. The conversations of both official campaigns seems to be uneditable (which btw is totally understandable), but you can add dialogue on top of the original script.

[Ixal]

If someone reports this to the Devs, please also mention the Ghostwalker reference by Vauclair near the end which is about 10 years too early.

[Phoenix7786]

Originally posted by pfhned:

Originally posted by Randy:

Try freeing APEX but not giving it control of Firewing and he'll give you a double sucker-punch.

I'm scared to ask, what that might be? Since I hate AI-archetypes like this, I never planned to free it.

He pops up, in Monica's persona no less. He tells you pretty bluntly that you ♥♥♥♥♥♥ up. He says he'll "see you soon" which, considering how powerful APEX is,makes me glad I roll a Street Sam and at the same time would make me terrified of my microwave. As one last middle-finger, it assumes Monica's dead appearance as one last jibe.

[takashi_K]

Originally posted by Ixal:

If someone reports this to the Devs, please also mention the Ghostwalker reference by Vauclair near the end which is about 10 years too early.

Since "the devs" includes the original creator of Shadowrun, he probably is already aware, and doesn't care. He gets to do what he wants with his own setting.

[Philip Marlowe]

Or rather, hopefully they are focused and very busy creating new campaigns. :)

[Ixal]

Originally posted by takashi_K:

Originally posted by Ixal:

If someone reports this to the Devs, please also mention the Ghostwalker reference by Vauclair near the end which is about 10 years too early.

Since "the devs" includes the original creator of Shadowrun, he probably is already aware, and doesn't care. He gets to do what he wants with his own setting.

The Shadowrun license has changed hands several times and I don't think that he has been involved in shadowrun for the last 10 years or more, including the creation and introduction of Ghsotwalker (3 Edition of the game).

[Paco Madreja Moncillos]

Originally posted by Khyonmyon:

Originally posted by Ixal:

He gives you a call and tells you to be "very afraid" when entering the Matrix.

Lol, I suppose I'll never set him free =p


By the way

Originally posted by Talon:

Clockwork is a decker referenced throughout the game. Winters says he has gone missing in a DVD recording made just prior to hiring your team for the opening mission. Alice later says he was among the deckers killed by APEX. But Clockwork posts on the Shadowlands BBS occasionally between these 2 events and no one finds that strange given he's supposedly already missing/dead.

Then, if you free APEX, a thread shows up on Shadowlands where another decker claims they were with Clockwork when APEX, now free, killed him. APEX, posing as Clockwork, posts in that thread but is discovered due to its lack of knowing Clockwork's signature catchphrase. (Which is another problem given it retained enough of Monika's memories to know what Eiger told her but doesn't retain enough of Clockwork to know how to properly impersonate him on Shadowlands?)

So the obvious question is...when did Clockwork actually die? Are there multiple deckers going by that alias? Winters and Alice say he's missing/dead, he's still posting on Shadowlands as normal, then APEX is seen killing him and tries to impersonate him on Shadowlands but fails. If Clockwork were already dead prior to this event, those earlier posts on Shadowlands would have also been faked by APEX but they couldn't have been because APEX didn't understand the catchphrase Clockwork always used which is how he was discovered in the end.

Am I missing something here or does this make no logical sense?

Talon, maybe you should report this to Devs? And they'll fix it somehow.

It makes perfect sense: Alice is APEX. Think about it. You never see her in person. She gives you the location and instructions to free APEX, and when asked how did she found it, the message responds that it does not the answer ("Well, you know, actually I'm APEX luring you into my lair. Of course I didn't have to find the place, I'm trapped in it since 40 years ago, haha ")