Project Cars Physics vs Gran Turismo 6 vs Forza 4

[Mercenary]

So how do the physics in this game compare to Gran Turismo 6 or Forza 4`s physics in terms of realism?

[WildKarrde]

Project CARS >>> GT6 > Forza 4

[pez2k]

Yeah, it's a whole lot more accurate than either. Project CARS is a hardcore PC sim designed for a wheel that is being ported to consoles with extra assists and gamepad support, whereas GT and Forza are designed to be accessible console games with the gamepad first and foremost.


Also, the problem with having 650+ cars like those two games is that they simply don't have enough time to properly research and recreate every car. Forza 4 has tons of inaccuracies especially, while GT6 also gets things wrong.

Project CARS on the other hand literally has racing drivers who've driven the real thing consulting on car setups in order to use it as a training aid, and the level of detail in both their research and implementation is staggering - everything from correctly routed wiring in the engine bay down to accurate tread depths on the tyres. A community member even pointed out at one point that the carbon-fibre weave on part of a Pagani's dashboard was in slightly the wrong direction, so SMS actually redid it. That level of detail goes into the physics too, with a former GT champion and a karter leading development.

[WildKarrde]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von pez2k:

Yeah, it's a whole lot more accurate than either. Project CARS is a hardcore PC sim designed for a wheel that is being ported to consoles with extra assists and gamepad support, whereas GT and Forza are designed to be accessible console games with the gamepad first and foremost.


Also, the problem with having 650+ cars like those two games is that they simply don't have enough time to properly research and recreate every car. Forza 4 has tons of inaccuracies especially, while GT6 also gets things wrong.

Project CARS on the other hand literally has racing drivers who've driven the real thing consulting on car setups in order to use it as a training aid, and the level of detail in both their research and implementation is staggering - everything from correctly routed wiring in the engine bay down to accurate tread depths on the tyres. A community member even pointed out at one point that the carbon-fibre weave on part of a Pagani's dashboard was in slightly the wrong direction, so SMS actually redid it. That level of detail goes into the physics too, with a former GT champion and a karter leading development.

I agree with everything you say... but just for clarification, the console version won't have *extra* assists and gamepad support. Gamepad support and all the assists are available on the PC side as well. I did a video with all assists on once... and the car almost drives itself, lol.

With assists off though, or on "Real" settings, the game is certainly a hardcore simulator.

[Trent]

I havent played either of those console titles. But imo, Pcars stacks up against every other racing sim on PC in terms of physics. I've tried most of them.

People rave about iRacing having the most realistic physics, but it's also one of the most boring race titles i've played. Pcars on the other hand is thrilling and leaves you satisfied.

[DombieZale]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Trent The Tank Engine:

I havent played either of those console titles. But imo, Pcars stacks up against every other racing sim on PC in terms of physics. I've tried most of them.

People rave about iRacing having the most realistic physics, but it's also one of the most boring race titles i've played. Pcars on the other hand is thrilling and leaves you satisfied.

How does PCars stack up against Assetto Corsa in terms of physics? Also, do you drive with a wheel or a controller?

[Vektor T]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von pez2k:

Yeah, it's a whole lot more accurate than either. Project CARS is a hardcore PC sim designed for a wheel that is being ported to consoles with extra assists and gamepad support, whereas GT and Forza are designed to be accessible console games with the gamepad first and foremost.


Also, the problem with having 650+ cars like those two games is that they simply don't have enough time to properly research and recreate every car. Forza 4 has tons of inaccuracies especially, while GT6 also gets things wrong.

Project CARS on the other hand literally has racing drivers who've driven the real thing consulting on car setups in order to use it as a training aid, and the level of detail in both their research and implementation is staggering - everything from correctly routed wiring in the engine bay down to accurate tread depths on the tyres. A community member even pointed out at one point that the carbon-fibre weave on part of a Pagani's dashboard was in slightly the wrong direction, so SMS actually redid it. That level of detail goes into the physics too, with a former GT champion and a karter leading development.

It kinda pleased and unpleased me at the same time. While I love top quality product, what made me fall in love with Forza was exactly it galore of cars (and I went crazy and bought all of them). I like less powered and classic cars, I barely play with modern "super cars" and virtualy never with Le Mans types, so Forza gave a lot of content to play like never a racing game ever did.

I like the feel of "close and personal" a muscle car race gives me, for example. To drive in a race with only popular/cheap cars I drive and see on the street every day. Or to race a 70s beautiful european master piece in a "just classics" setup without seing the road filled with the same model only in different colors. Forza not only gave me that, but in a stunning variety not only in cars but also events! I can do a "muscle car only" race with 20 cars and none of the 20 cars are the same model. I can drive a old Beatle competitively in a race with dozens of similar powered cars and, again, none of them the same model (not a "Beatles only" race).

When I played Forza I got the feel it was telling me "so you like old models? I will give you so many of it at the same and different tiers that even after months you still will have another one to play!". It made Forza the best racing game I ever played even if not all cars are 100% accurate or balanced like in Asseto Corsa or Project Cars. Is like the Forza devs remembered guys like me and sent a lot of love, while in other games is more like "so you like old cars? I will give you two or three just to say there is something like that".

When I see Project Cars and Assetto Corsa cars line up, I feel kinda frustrated to see a bunch of super cars, but very few "old" and "less powered" cars. I know both games are not finished yet, but I dont hope to see it adding in a lot of old cars, just "new post-2000 stuff"... I would trade easily two dozens of "perfectly made" cars for a hundred of "satisfatory" cars just for cariety sake. To me the diversity adds a lot, since what excites me most in a racing game is always having something new to drive without moving out my favorite "tier". I'm not fan of a full speed very fast race with ultimate cars, but, like I said, more slower and personal ones. I love the feeling of driving side-by-side, dramatic take overs that last more than .5 seconds, cars touching each other without spinning like hell... a more raw racing experience, if you know what I mean.

I know there is mods, but, let face it... a very few part of the modded cars are "vanilla game level" in quality.

[DombieZale]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Vektor T:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von pez2k:

Yeah, it's a whole lot more accurate than either. Project CARS is a hardcore PC sim designed for a wheel that is being ported to consoles with extra assists and gamepad support, whereas GT and Forza are designed to be accessible console games with the gamepad first and foremost.


Also, the problem with having 650+ cars like those two games is that they simply don't have enough time to properly research and recreate every car. Forza 4 has tons of inaccuracies especially, while GT6 also gets things wrong.

Project CARS on the other hand literally has racing drivers who've driven the real thing consulting on car setups in order to use it as a training aid, and the level of detail in both their research and implementation is staggering - everything from correctly routed wiring in the engine bay down to accurate tread depths on the tyres. A community member even pointed out at one point that the carbon-fibre weave on part of a Pagani's dashboard was in slightly the wrong direction, so SMS actually redid it. That level of detail goes into the physics too, with a former GT champion and a karter leading development.

It kinda pleased and unpleased me at the same time. While I love top quality product, what made me fall in love with Forza was exactly it galore of cars (and I went crazy and bought all of them). I like less powered and classic cars, I barely play with modern "super cars" and virtualy never with Le Mans types, so Forza gave a lot of content to play like never a racing game ever did.

I like the feel of "close and personal" a muscle car race gives me, for example. To drive in a race with only popular/cheap cars I drive and see on the street every day. Or to race a 70s beautiful european master piece in a "just classics" setup without seing the road filled with the same model only in different colors. Forza not only gave me that, but in a stunning variety not only in cars but also events! I can do a "muscle car only" race with 20 cars and none of the 20 cars are the same model. I can drive a old Beatle competitively in a race with dozens of similar powered cars and, again, none of them the same model (not a "Beatles only" race).

When I played Forza I got the feel it was telling me "so you like old models? I will give you so many of it at the same and different tiers that even after months you still will have another one to play!". It made Forza the best racing game I ever played even if not all cars are 100% accurate or balanced like in Asseto Corsa or Project Cars. Is like the Forza devs remembered guys like me and sent a lot of love, while in other games is more like "so you like old cars? I will give you two or three just to say there is something like that".

When I see Project Cars and Assetto Corsa cars line up, I feel kinda frustrated to see a bunch of super cars, but very few "old" and "less powered" cars. I know both games are not finished yet, but I dont hope to see it adding in a lot of old cars, just "new post-2000 stuff"... I would trade easily two dozens of "perfectly made" cars for a hundred of "satisfatory" cars just for cariety sake. To me the diversity adds a lot, since what excites me most in a racing game is always having something new to drive without moving out my favorite "tier". I'm not fan of a full speed very fast race with ultimate cars, but, like I said, more slower and personal ones. I love the feeling of driving side-by-side, dramatic take overs that last more than .5 seconds, cars touching each other without spinning like hell... a more raw racing experience, if you know what I mean.

I know there is mods, but, let face it... a very few part of the modded cars are "vanilla game level" in quality.

My god are you me? AM I YOU?!?! WHAT IS LIFE?! I drove thousands of hours in Forza 4. 98% of those hours were racing friends in A-Class or B-Class cars. We would find the limits of those slower cars instead of racing the super fast ridiculous cars. I just simply didn't get the same enjoyment driving a race car as I did making a common car FEEL like a race car.

[pez2k]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Vektor T:

When I see Project Cars and Assetto Corsa cars line up, I feel kinda frustrated to see a bunch of super cars, but very few "old" and "less powered" cars.

There are quite a few historic cars in Project CARS already, for example:
1969 Ford GT40 MkIV
1970 Ford Escort RS1600
1972 Mercedes-Benz 300SEL 6.8 AMG
1979 BMW 320i Turbo
1981 BMW M1 Procar
1981 Zakspeed Ford Capri

They're all historically significant, and SMS are even creating a set of historic tracks to race them on like the old 1960s Spa-Francorchamps layout, Rouen les Essarts, and Solitude in Germany. There should be more historic cars coming along with the tracks after launch with at least one notable car every decade from 1950 to 1990 that should be ready by then or perhaps sooner. One of the previous games by the SMS team was GT Legends which was all about racing vintage cars, and this is a first step toward a successor.


As for lower-powered cars, the Caterham Classic and Formula Rookie both only have around 100hp, and while the Renault Clio RS makes 200hp it's still just a hot hatch. There's also a Megane, Focus and A-Class to race against each other too.

[Vektor T]

JackBauerCTU:
Yeeeeah! That feel of catching a "crap" car and trying to turn it into a race winning machine! Not just by tunning it, but by overcoming all it flaws for not being a race car, like poor stability, poor control at high speed, bad turnings, etc! My first race in Forza was against the AI in a race with only cheap popular cars I see every day in the streets like VW Fox, Ford KA, Fiat Punto, Chev Spark and such! I couldn't stop thinking "omg, this is wrong in so many levels! What are this stuff doing in a race game!? Who putted them in a racing circuit!? Lol, I made it to 150km/h!"... I couldn't had a better first experience showing me more what Forza would be about: do whatever you want with whatever car!... some time later I tunned a VW Beatle to the max and tried to beat proper super cars in multiplayers... OMG, it sucked so many balls and I had so many fun!

But not everything was just about "troll" or "just for fun" races... I also tried to be as more competitive I could in the lower tiers, tunning different cars in a way they wouldn't be putted in the next tier to create the "superior machine of tier (n)". Every tier was like a brand new game with different cars and different racing techniques! When I came to multiplayer and actually was REALLY and SERIOUSLY racing in a competitive way with a VW Fox (example) against other people with cars who shouldn't be racing but was very serious about what they was doing it was one of my very best experience ever in video game! Not just that, but when I finally started to play with "cars made to be fast" but from the 70s, like the original Corvette Stingray... man, that was hot!! The races still was "close and personal" and I was using one of my favorite cars ever and, believe, I'm not into US cars! I dont want a fast car just because it's fast... I want a car that I like and/or I identify myself! Motoring, to me, is not about speed it self... but about the car itself! And cars are like art: it never gets old!

Plus, obviously... I'm not master virtual racer and I dont pretend to be. At the super cars level the things start to became more of a challenge than a pleasure. I play video game not because I want to beat the other guy and be the very best... but to have fun! Most of my most memorable races I didn't won, but it made my blood go from cold to hot in seconds! That "touching-doors" turns, the bumpers hitting each other, I spinning off, other guys spinning off, the voltage when you know that you and the other cars will do the turn touching each other but you cant tell what will happen, if you, he or both will spin.., none of us was doing it on purpose, we tried not to hit each other, but we also didn't want to give any inch to the other! The guy in the front didn't had half of the fun in my point of view. It's cool to win sometimes, of course, but the close competition is the best part! When you come to faster cars, like in a F-1 game for instance, the cars accelerate so fast that even when 0.5 sec aways, they still are dozens of meters away from each other. Even a small touch in a turn can result in a spinning and a "offensive" maneuver, so basically you have a rigid "no touching" policy... I dont like this lack of contact... like I said, I like it more close and personal, and slower cars naturally are better at it!

pez2k:
I know there are some cars, but still only six and not even of the same tier, neither are they exactly "slow" (like a non-racing popular car of any age)... I really hope Project Car and Assetto Corza create more old cars, even as DLCs like Forza did. I would totally pay for more cars if they suit me. I know that developing a single car like this guys do is expensive and time consuming, so I would gladly pay for it. I really dont mind paying 30$ or even 40$ bucks for a game if it is really good, and them paying the double of it just in DLCs if I think they are fair and not just cheap stuff or cutted out content. I mean... I bought Forza 4 and ALL of it DLCs just for variety sake! I dont regret any peny even if I never played one third of the cars I bought! I'm not rich but money isn't the problem, come on, games are not that expensive if you already paid for the hardware. Devs, please... throw me cars and I throw you money!

[Vektor T]

Sometimes I feel like a savant orphan in the racing genre. I love racing sims, but I dont like super sports and racing cars that much... Many games that gives the kind of race I want are just too arcadish (like BurnOut) and Forza was the only one who hitted the sweet spot for me: an acceptable level os simulation but not focusing only in super fast cars.

I sold off my XBox 360 some time ago since I wasn't playing it anymore since I bought myself a gaming pc and even a G27 wheel... but now I can't find a racing game that suits me and I end playing Euro Truck Simulator all the night long...

Kinda comic, isn't? Went for a race... ended delevering cabbage in Poland.

[DombieZale]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Vektor T:

Sometimes I feel like a savant orphan in the racing genre. I love racing sims, but I dont like super sports and racing cars that much... Many games that gives the kind of race I want are just too arcadish (like BurnOut) and Forza was the only one who hitted the sweet spot for me: an acceptable level os simulation but not focusing only in super fast cars.

I sold off my XBox 360 some time ago since I wasn't playing it anymore since I bought myself a gaming pc and even a G27 wheel... but now I can't find a racing game that suits me and I end playing Euro Truck Simulator all the night long...

Kinda comic, isn't? Went for a race... ended delevering cabbage in Poland.

Have you tried Assetto Corsa? I bought a G27 for AC and in anticipation for Pcars. Assetto Corsa is literally the closest thing I've ever seen to driving a real car. It has some really fast cars but I always end up back in the BMW E30 and the Z4. Just common everyday cars that I could own just as easliy as my Nissan Altima. I added you, we should race together sometime. I still play Forza from time to time with a group of like minded friends.

[Vektor T]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von JackBauerCTU:

Have you tried Assetto Corsa? I bought a G27 for AC and in anticipation for Pcars. Assetto Corsa is literally the closest thing I've ever seen to driving a real car. It has some really fast cars but I always end up back in the BMW E30 and the Z4. Just common everyday cars that I could own just as easliy as my Nissan Altima. I added you, we should race together sometime. I still play Forza from time to time with a group of like minded friends.

Didn't played yet and I was considering Pcars more, but I was not convinced yet. Well, having people to play with (and the game with discount) is enough to me. I will give it a shot!

[feprice]

Three hours ago SMS released a 415 page compilation of driver feedback files going back over the past two years. It's available free to the public and consists of handling development feedback and exchanges between race drivers Nic Campbell and Ben Collins and SMS staff, up to and including this month. A great read; 5.0 MB download.

http://forum.wmdportal.com/showthread.php?20509-Project-CARS-Driver-Feedback-Compilation-Available&p=815404#post815404

[WildKarrde]

Thanks for the heads up!