The difference between P2W and expansion

[All Day I Dream About🪓]

I feel like this topic deserves more attention since people keep misunderstanding the difference between pay-to-win (P2W) and game expansions. Here’s a clear explanation:

Pay-to-Win (P2W) vs. Game Expansions

Pay-to-Win (P2W)

- Purpose: P2W mechanics allow players to gain an unfair advantage by spending real money, often to purchase in-game power such as stronger items, boosts, or exclusive characters.
- Impact: P2W disrupts game balance, especially in competitive or multiplayer settings. Players who spend money can progress faster or outperform those who don’t spend, creating an uneven playing field.
- Examples: Purchasing overpowered weapons, gear, or special abilities that give players a direct advantage without having to earn them through gameplay.

Game Expansions

- Purpose: Expansions are paid content that add new features, such as additional storylines, regions, characters, or mechanics, enhancing the game’s overall experience without giving players an unfair advantage.
- Impact: Expansions offer new content for all players to explore but don’t disrupt the balance between those who purchase them and those who don’t. They usually provide more content but don’t make players inherently stronger compared to others.
- Examples: Expansions like World of Warcraft: Shadowlands or The Witcher 3: Blood and Wine add new areas, quests, and storylines, but they don’t grant competitive advantages.

Key Differences

- Advantage: P2W is about gaining in-game advantages quickly, while expansions focus on adding content.
- Balance: P2W disrupts balance, whereas expansions enhance or extend gameplay without offering competitive advantages.
- Player Impact: P2W is seen as unfair to non-paying players, while expansions cater to those wanting more content without penalizing others.

In summary, P2W affects the fairness and balance of the game, while expansions improve the overall experience without creating an unfair advantage.

The Controversy Over Diablo 4 and Expansions

Some people are criticizing Diablo 4 for requiring payment for expansions, calling it P2W. One complaint is that rune words are accessible only with the VoH expansion. However, it's important to remember that runes were not available in the base game of Diablo 2 either, without the Lord of Destruction (LoD) expansion. In fact, rune words in LoD were incredibly overpowered, whereas in Diablo 4, rune words seem to provide more subtle, balanced effects.

If this logic were followed, many other games with expansions would be considered P2W, such as:

1. The Division 2 and Warlords of New York
2. Monster Hunter World and Iceborne
3. Dragon's Dogma and Dark Arisen
4. Borderlands 3 and its various DLCs
5. FromSoftware games like Dark Souls, Bloodborne, or Elden Ring
6. Horizon Zero Dawn
7. The Witcher 3

In each of these games, expansions provide new power, gear, and content not available to those who don’t own them. However, these expansions are not P2W; they are simply paid content that enhances the overall game experience without breaking the competitive balance.

So I think this should cover it.

[LOL]

D4 director of product, Kegan Clark claimed "purchases will be cosmetic only. Purchases will not impact gameplay. Players can not pay for power."

A year later Blizzard releases a $40 bundle that allows you to purchase power for your character by access of mercenaries and runewards.

They lied.

They claimed the cosmetics and battlepasses were to further the content.

They lied.

Where is all the cosmetic money going? Not content, because they want another $40 to access mechanics that empower our characters.

They lied.

They scammed us.

People will keep shipping money anyways.

[All Day I Dream About🪓]

Cool story above, only apparently Blizzard 'scammed' and 'lied' to us over 20 years ago by selling $60 (by today's standards) bundle containing new mercenary system and runewords for D2.

[Murphy´s Law]

Good definition, wont help against those Above...

[LOL]

Ursprungligen skrivet av All Day I Dream About Sex:

Cool story above, only apparently Blizzard 'scammed' and 'lied' to us over 20 years ago by selling $60 (by today's standards) bundle containing new mercenary system and runewords for D2.

Blizzard never claimed D2 wasn't going to be P2W. Seems all the "friends of Blizzard" keep glossing over this fact instead of addressing it.

[Murphy´s Law]

Ursprungligen skrivet av All Day I Dream About Diablo:

Ursprungligen skrivet av Murphy´s Law:

Good definition, wont help against those Above...

Bad definition, didn't help those Above or Below.

blabla blabla blabla.. Diablo (Blizzard) is bad and P?oE is good right? huh?

[Murphy´s Law]

Sorry, that´s the common reason why... So, what exactly is your Problem?

[76561199765928822]

Ursprungligen skrivet av Murphy´s Law:

Sorry, that´s the common reason why... So, what exactly is your Problem?

What problem? You seem to be the one with the problem. Doesn't matter if there is a difference between the definition of P2W and EXPANSION when they say there is never going to be any P2W and they introduce P2W via an EXPANSION. No one was conflating the terms in the first place.

[Murphy´s Law]

Ì still don´t get the Issue, you get a new Class, new Region and with that a new Mechanic, where in wich Game you won´t have to Pay for that?

[Murphy´s Law]

I mean really, i want to Understand it.. since there was no such BS back then in Skyrim, Witcher 3 or else who all killed in sales and General Impact...

[All Day I Dream About🪓]

Ursprungligen skrivet av Murphy´s Law:

Good definition, wont help against those Above...

Thanks, I know. This is more for regular folks that come here and get confused by misinformation. As for troll accounts in this thread (also both of them belong to the same person) - don't really care. They came here with a clear agenda of confusing and ridiculing people. Best course of action is to just add them to the block list.

[Murphy´s Law]

Dude.. look in my owned Games... thats a really BS answer

[76561199765928822]

Ursprungligen skrivet av Murphy´s Law:

Ì still don´t get the Issue, you get a new Class, new Region and with that a new Mechanic, where in wich Game you won´t have to Pay for that?

Typically in a game where the devs themselves say it won't happen....

[Murphy´s Law]

Ursprungligen skrivet av All Day I Dream About Diablo:

Ursprungligen skrivet av Murphy´s Law:

Ì still don´t get the Issue, you get a new Class, new Region and with that a new Mechanic, where in wich Game you won´t have to Pay for that?

Typically in a game where the devs themselves say it won't happen....

Well, okay i don´t know the exact meaning what the Devs said about this tbh.

[LOL]

Ursprungligen skrivet av All Day I Dream About Sex:

Ursprungligen skrivet av Murphy´s Law:

Good definition, wont help against those Above...

Thanks, I know. This is more for regular folks that come here and get confused by misinformation. As for troll accounts in this thread (also both of them belong to the same person) - don't really care. They came here with a clear agenda of confusing and ridiculing people. Best course of action is to just add them to the block list.

How am I trolling?

"Christy Um, the Senior Director of Global PR at Blizzard Entertainment, confirmed that Diablo IV will not have pay-to-win microtransactions in an email to The Washington Post. Um stated that all purchasable in-game items are purely cosmetic and do not provide any gameplay advantages. She wrote, "Purchased items are cosmetic only. Cosmetics do not impact gameplay. Therefore, players cannot pay for power""

This is a real thing that happened. Research it.

[NapalmDest54]

Ursprungligen skrivet av LOL:

Ursprungligen skrivet av All Day I Dream About Sex:

Cool story above, only apparently Blizzard 'scammed' and 'lied' to us over 20 years ago by selling $60 (by today's standards) bundle containing new mercenary system and runewords for D2.

Blizzard never claimed D2 wasn't going to be P2W. Seems all the "friends of Blizzard" keep glossing over this fact instead of addressing it.

If you can't afford the expansion, just try saving up a little bit.