Y'all think Waven will succeed?

[Cornelius Weinerbottom]

Just looking for opinions and thoughts.

I'm in the middle. I think the core game play is solid and I really enjoy it, but I'm really worried about the games staying power. I think the game may get stale rather quick. Once you figure out you'r card rotation you can pretty much turn your brain off for the most part. Now I have not played PvP yet, but this of course being a card game and how the character and content progression is right now, It defiantly seems like PvP is the main focus. So maybe that is what they plan to fix the playing in auto pilot problem.

Things I think the game needs but will never happen.

Bigger battle arenas, would add more depth to fights. But if PvE is pretty much an extended tutorial and PvP is the main goal then small arenas make sense.

Random mob encounters on the map, My biggest personal grievance is how battles are initiated. Not a fan running the same npc quest fight over and over as a way to farm. But its a card game so I guess this makes sense.

Some type of player trading. Don't know how this could be implemented but farming to sell stuff to other players is always satisfying and helps with a games chance at surviving in my opinion.

After re reading that, maybe I'm just wanting this to be like Dofus but there aint a gosh darned thing wrong with that! lol

Any opinions are welcome! Just no complaining about it being P2W, thats an old topic and Waven has got to be the most consumer friendly MMO card game on the market.

[justdrop]

Fine with the size of the maps, makes for quicker engagements. Overall I much prefer this to Dofus or Wakfu because it trimmed a ton of the fat of those games. I wish they'd create more synergistic gameplay instead of nerfing things to being next to worthless and that there were more classes overall (mainly feca.)

[Nerrinas]

PvP is the main focus? Are we playing the same game?

[Ultima546]

I’m also on the fence about this.
Only level 9/10 right now (Piven), so still kind of early.

But so far my thoughts:

• Tactical gameplay is generally fun, although I think companions might need a rework. It often feels like they are mostly just there to take hits and make battles seem less repetitive.
  
  
• Upgrading your equipment, spells, and companions is kind of feelsbadman. Like, I understand it’s intended to add a system of RPGness to the game, but getting a bunch of stuff you don’t want in your chests is deflating. I feel like the system could be better if there was just a single upgrade material that you use to level up everything, and it just gets more expensive as the level increases. This way chests could be just for new gear rewards.

Realistically, I think the game will remain pretty niche. Tactical games are generally niche, and this one doesn’t really add anything that compels you to keep playing, and it even has some systems that discourage you from playing a lot, like the battlepass rewards being time-gated.

[iGuan]

i am okay with map size, companions (though 90% of them are either useless or used in very cringe builds) and upgrade mechanics . what is missing in my opinion is difficulty (some classes can solo everything as early as lvl 30-35) and multiplayer part. it'd be nice to have harder dungeons\raids , which need 3-4 members to complete.
also i have a personal complain - its hard to understand sometimes how damage scales in this game. i mean class specific gold skills , common architype skills, attack - its simple. but auras, traps, damage on some proc-based rings.. eventually you get it but why is there no in-game tooltip ?
as for niche games - ankama makes niche games)

[76561198192557465]

Its a nice game. But for that, a lot need to be improved and adjusted.
There are some points in the game that make it very monotonous.
Adding more game mode [solo and group], unrestricted the pvp mode and a rework [or remove] in some companions would be the point that most need to be focused.

I think the biggest problem is pve limitation. The same bosses and enemies. Some characters are missing.
There are so many villains in the wakfu universe and only Ogrest is in the game [but still very light and just tutorial].
I hope they appear in the future. Dark Vlad, Nox, Qilby, Katar, Rushu, Adamai, Ogrest, Oropo..

[HawkPeft]

It depends completely on how well they balance the classes and gear synergies. If only one build is strong enough to take on end game content, then the game will die. But if they can pull themselves together and make the synergies work rather than take them out of the game one by one, this will be a great success.

[dead god boogaloo]

Waven is a lot less complicated than Wakfu. I kinda came in expecting another MMO and this doesn't really feel like an MMO, but that's not a bad thing. I'm hoping that keeping things relatively simple will make balancing the game easier and not result in like, I dunno, constant rebalances and reworks?

[Salvatos]

For me, no, not without some kind of storyline or incentive to keep doing the same fights over and over. I’m enjoying the theorycrafting and trying various builds and play styles, but that’s going to wear off sooner or later and I have no interest in pvp or farming the same crap over and over to increase a few numbers to make it marginally easier to keep farming the same crap.

Plus the 1-minute timer really kills the tactical aspect for more complex builds that require actually analyzing the board state and thinking ahead. I’d probably use my Sram as a main if I had time to actually think about where and when to position and trigger everything, but I get better results with a dead-easy Iop that just charges and punches the nearest thing every turn. So much for a tactics game.

[Tom (68inchPianist)]

Honestly Waven doesn't really show much about where it's going. We haven't had a roadmap or anything that points at what new content is going to be besides a raising of the level cap and more classes, so I kind of want to see what the plan is.

[Meowish]

[1] There are tons of way better free Online TRPG out there.

[2] For those who knows how Ankama works do not have high expectation from this company due to how they are never able to made up their mind and keep changing the game mechanics from time to time killing the hard-learnt tactics and play style you've gotten used to. IMHO, this can never be a "fun thing" to happen when you have worked hard building a character up to your own liking and playstyle, and is told by the game itself that "no, we don't want you to play this way, you need to play it the new way we set up, it's time for a nerf!"

[3] Ankama's TRPG is the weird one when you compare it with other TRPG where team building and multiple characters building is required for a good and complex tactic play out. Here, all you have to worry is 1 character and it can be pretty brainless when it comes to strategy most of the time. That's also the reason why they kept "rebalancing" the characters in all their games, but it can never be balanced when they try to introduce a new character with "unique" playstyle. In the end, for the shakes of PvP, they've taken out all the "unique" game play of the characters and nerfed all characters into a similar playstyle but with different labelled skills that works more or less, the same. Which minimized the tactical value of the game play itself, the very same "strategy" can be used on multiple different classes as long as they own similar skills. And to camouflage this "weakness", they've added the frustrating RNG elements into how you are getting your skills and skill upgrades, which makes early game "random", but as soon as you get the set going, it turns super dull and tasteless.

[4] It's also due to these "rebalancing" that makes co-op obsolete, when everyone shares the similar skills, there no real need for co-op strategy, and the only reason for co-op is due to the enemy have higher HP and hard to kill. No real strategy or tactical value in that part either, you do not need a specific character/class type to clear certain dungeon/stage, everyone is capable of doing everyone else's role. This failed as a "role play" game itself. Even for players who are playing multiple accounts to form their own "dream team" (multiboxing), it's not fun when there's no real need to train a specific character for certain dungeon, might as well train 6 of the summon class and fill the maps with summoned creatures, it's not really more fun that way, but at least it require more work to clear the dungeon and makes it less dull in the process. Or if you don't mind the dullness, 6 Iops is no different than 6 Cras when it comes to clearing the stages... replayability value is super low and yet we are forced to grind the same battle forever... trying not to fall asleep is probably the real battle you need to fight in these games.

[5] This is actually a 5+ hours game made into 100++ hours using RNG to delay your progress. If you compare it to real life's work, it's like getting paid with lottery ticket instead of a proper salary after long hard work. And getting stuffs you need is like walking into a grocery store that doesn't allowed its customer to pick what they want, but instead, you paid a fixed amount of money and the grocery store give you a bunch of random stuffs you don't even need or wanted. To get the things you want you need to continue paying over and over again until the items you want showed up. That's how the "Life in Waven" looks like. If you have a bit of sanity left and is able to think straight, stay away from it, it's just a time wasting mini game that tried to look big. But if you are one of those who think buying "Blind Box" online is fair and fun, well... go ahead and enjoy the game, it's your time and money, don't let anyone else tell you how you use them, just, don't regret it later and you'll probably live a happy carefree life.

[CATONFIRE]

I love the game and agree with those who prefer it over Dofus. I mean this in a good way, I can turn my brain off in a way i can't do in Dofus. While the game has is problems like the time-gated battle pass or w/e its called and how certain companions feel like filler, for what is essentially a card game, its pretty good. Do I think it'll be a huge hit that'll get all my friends talking? No. Will it be a hit with the folks who fall into this niche? Its too soon to tell but I think the production value alone will carry it into the next year easily.

[Veylox]

No way. Every part of this game looks like it should've been a prototype way before Dofus came out, and not a successor. It's the skeleton of a game. No story, questing or exploration to speak of, extremely limited gear mechanics, stripped down to a couple of rings, and everything in this is just grind, grind, grind to reach nowhere. The scope of the maps and battles is as laughable as the fire emblem gacha compared to actual fire emblem games.

The combat is fine, there are some interesting ideas here and there, but again, it has less tactical depth, less variety, and a much narrower scale than both Dofus and Wakfu, and those, while being miles better, have been consistently losing players over the years, as all old MMOs do.

The only way Waven could strive is

1) If it somehow got absolutely massive updates, expanding the world, lore, classes, quests etc, that could bring it closer to full game status. But if this is the state they reached after years of development it's safe to say they won't just quintuple the game's content in a heartbeat.

or

2) If it double-downs on the gacha side of things and somehow pleases this market, but I don't see this happening either considering there's no waifu loot.

It's a fun game like a lot of Ankama's side projects, like dofus arena or wakfu the guardians, but the scope of it has no hope of being a "main" game whatsoever so far, its own predecessors put it to shame on every single front, Waven would need years and years of further development to even reach the polish of previous games' base state.

[justdrop]

Originally posted by Veylox:

The combat is fine, there are some interesting ideas here and there, but again, it has less tactical depth, less variety, and a much narrower scale than both Dofus and Wakfu,

Yeah gonna hard disagree with that. Spamming coin toss as an enu, AoN on an eca or heals on an eni, weapon attacks, etc in Dofus. It was the same thing.

[Veylox]

Originally posted by justdrop:

Originally posted by Veylox:

The combat is fine, there are some interesting ideas here and there, but again, it has less tactical depth, less variety, and a much narrower scale than both Dofus and Wakfu,

Yeah gonna hard disagree with that. Spamming coin toss as an enu, AoN on an eca or heals on an eni, weapon attacks, etc in Dofus. It was the same thing.

Every spell in waven is essentially a reskin of every other spell, on top of the fact that most of them are shared across 4 classes. "X element spell that applies Y element status", "X element spell that triggers a secondary effect when Y status is on the opponent", etc. They don't have ranges, they're either melee, line or global, which doesn't help making them unique either. If you're playing Enu, no one else does what you do. In waven, only the passives have any actual impact on the way you play your character, everything else is just reskins

Look at the summoning FFS, the main summoning class in Waven spams one sorry blob, the main summoning class in dofus had 5 to 10 summons available, each with their own skillset.

Did you compare the size of the maps and the importance of positioning / kiting ? I can guarantee you that even if the most you did was spam coin toss on an Enu (which shouldn't be done considering it's not even their main damaging spell and they have one of the best supporting kits), you'd still have a more tactical game.

[justdrop]

Originally posted by Veylox:

Every spell in waven is essentially a reskin of every other spell, on top of the fact that most of them are shared across 4 classes. "X element spell that applies Y element status", "X element spell that triggers a secondary effect when Y status is on the opponent", etc. They don't have ranges, they're either melee, line or global, which doesn't help making them unique either. If you're playing Enu, no one else does what you do. In waven, only the passives have any actual impact on the way you play your character, everything else is just reskins

If you're playing enu, nobody else wanted to do what you did which was take up a turn timer for your chance stat. Yes, the skills were varied but half of them were trash you wouldn't want to use anyway, in every class but especially that one.

Originally posted by Veylox:

Look at the summoning FFS, the main summoning class in Waven spams one sorry blob, the main summoning class in dofus had 5 to 10 summons available, each with their own skillset.

So this is still EA and I imagine more classes will be introduced. While I am with you I'm not ready to make a call on that.

Originally posted by Veylox:

Did you compare the size of the maps and the importance of positioning / kiting ? I can guarantee you that even if the most you did was spam coin toss on an Enu (which shouldn't be done considering it's not even their main damaging spell and they have one of the best supporting kits), you'd still have a more tactical game.

Yes, I compared the size of the maps and kiting. Kiting, quite frankly, stunk. Any time your main objective is out-surviving by running around a map, it's a problem and not a solution. Coin toss enu was a valid early game build before they added the shovel toss upgrades so unless you played it day 1, you might not remember 8AP tossing and relying on crits for damage.