Things to revisit

[Philippe_at_bay]

I've now played through all of Book I. Nice little game. A bit on the short side, but that's presumably why there are three books.

The game needs more Latin. This doesn't mean your writers should go out and learn Latin (though they probably should), it just means you need to get your hands on a copy of St. Jerome.

There's a moment (Chapter 3 I think) where Philip of Gwynedd starts saying the Lord's Prayer by the altar in the Priory Cathedral. Twelfth century monks didn't say their prayers in English because the Bible was written in Latin, and by that time there were a lot of people around who had no idea what they were actually saying. The Lord's Prayer scene is too long and drawn out for what it delivers to the plot, but apart from that any prayer or scriture quote in the game should be in Vulgate Latin. After all, everybody knows that God and his angels speak to each other in Latin (although I have heard a rumor that Hashem speaks Aramaic).


Exhausted dialogue trees not greying out.

One of the few things that I had trouble with in the first couple of Books was that it was not always clear that you had taken a line of discussion as far as you could with a given character. I had trouble with this at the castle, but also during the visit to the monastery when it wasn't always clear whether I had unlocked new dialogue options, of if old ones that had already been explored weren't being greyed out.

Castle battlements.

It wasn't clear that the damaged crenellation next to the drunken knight on the castle battlements was a selectable spot. I got a damaged battlements text when I ran the cursor over the crenellation, but I don't recall seeing anything to indicate that it was a hot spot when there was no cursor on it (i.e. when I used the space bar).

The reason I mention that the Lord's Prayer scene is too long and that the missing battlement highlight is a problem is that anything that signigicantly slows the movement of the plot down is counter-immersive. Having to run around and double check every spot in the castle three times to make sure you haven't missed something is neither realistic nor fun.

[Uyu]

Hi Philippe_at_bay,

many thanks for your feedback.

While we know, that monks probably spoke a lot of Latin it is not very fun to listen at all the time. The same holds up for the whole English language in the game. During that time lots of people spoke Norman-French, which is also probably not so fun to listen at. So, like in a movie, we decided to cut down authenticity - at least regarding language - for accessibility. Sometimes we switch to Latin for stylistic reasons.

I forwarded your other feedback to our team.

Uyu

[Clown Reemus]

I agree, it serves both ways. Understanding the prayer is important, but I would have prefered to hear authentic Latin while they chant. It would be quite touching, I believe. All in all, some would have probably been displeased with the language they don't understand. In this instance it is very much justified.

[mister.hister]

Not to make a new post, I think thus one would fit.

I was wondering how much historical authenticy has been put into the visuals of the game like clothes, arhitecture, etc.?

[Uyu]

Hi Clown Reemus,

the anxious choir chants in Latin and several music tracks are sung with Latin lyrics.

Here are some examples if you are interested in the lyrics:

The Choir of Kingsbridge (Veri Floris sub Figura)
Veri floris sub figura,
quem produxit radix pura
cleri nostri pia cu|m [sorry Steam filter]
florem fecit misticum
preter usum laycum
sensum traens tropicum
floris ad natura.

(The pious zeal of our priest
has shown the mystic flower
beneath the appearance of a true flower
sprung from a pure stem.
Paying no heed to the custom of lay people,
he drew a pictured meaning
from the nature of the flower.)

Philip of Gwynedd (Resonemus Hoc Natali)
Resonemus hoc natali
cantu quodam speciali,
Deus ortu temporali
de secreto virginali
processit hodie,
cessant argumenta perfidie.

(At this birth let us sing out
with some special song,
God comes forth today in temporal birth
from virginal mystery,
let the disputes
of the faithless cease.)

Uyu

[Uyu]

Originally posted by mister.hister:

Not to make a new post, I think thus one would fit.

I was wondering how much historical authenticy has been put into the visuals of the game like clothes, arhitecture, etc.?

Hi mister.hister,

actually A LOT. We used the same books Ken Follett used for his research. On top of that we researched every inch of the time in order to present you with an authentic representation of the 12th century. How did the ordinary people live? How did the nobles live? From which cups did they drink? Which material was it? So many questions. We learned a lot.

We had a small library in our office rooms just for the books and every 2D artist had a pile of historical books on their desk.

Uyu

[Philippe_at_bay]

Originally posted by Uyu:

Hi Philippe_at_bay,

While we know, that monks probably spoke a lot of Latin it is not very fun to listen at all the time.

Uyu

Just to be clear, it's not a question of many monks speaking Latin. Very few of them did in the twelfth century, though more than now. The point is that doing the Bible in a vernacular language was heresy and a burnable offense in the Middle Ages. No one would have dared recite the Lord's Prayer in English until after Henry VIII's divorce in the 16th century. There were no modern Protestants in the twelfth century.

The recitation of the prayer is too drawn out. Someone either knows that prayer or they don't. If they know it they don't need to go through it line by line. The way it stands now it feels too much like a sop for the 'Christian game' audience. This is not an association you want to make because it will offend a lot of non-Evangelicals and, speaking from painful experience, 'Christian games' are notorious for their poor quality.

What would probably be better would be to do the prayer in one gulp in Latin with a translation in subtitles. Since the prayer is still too long, what you might do is have Philip start reciting his Pater noster and then have the voice-over fade out after a few lines. The only people likely to be offended are the followers of Bishop Lefebvre (if they're still around).

[mister.hister]

Originally posted by Uyu:

Originally posted by mister.hister:

Not to make a new post, I think thus one would fit.

I was wondering how much historical authenticy has been put into the visuals of the game like clothes, arhitecture, etc.?

Hi mister.hister,

actually A LOT. We used the same books Ken Follett used for his research. On top of that we researched every inch of the time in order to present you with an authentic representation of the 12th century. How did the ordinary people live? How did the nobles live? From which cups did they drink? Which material was it? So many questions. We learned a lot.

We had a small library in our office rooms just for the books and every 2D artist had a pile of historical books on their desk.

Uyu

Ooooh Uyu, this is so good to hear, incredible! I like the game sooo much more now and I liked it a lot even before. Knowing the historical credibility in this game is top notch is a huge added value for me.

Thank you so much for making that extra step that most players of this game possibly don't even appreciate.

Send my warm regards to your coworkers from Slovenia. :D

[Hämärän matkamies]

Originally posted by Uyu:

Originally posted by mister.hister:

Not to make a new post, I think thus one would fit.

I was wondering how much historical authenticy has been put into the visuals of the game like clothes, arhitecture, etc.?

Hi mister.hister,

actually A LOT. We used the same books Ken Follett used for his research. On top of that we researched every inch of the time in order to present you with an authentic representation of the 12th century. How did the ordinary people live? How did the nobles live? From which cups did they drink? Which material was it? So many questions. We learned a lot.

We had a small library in our office rooms just for the books and every 2D artist had a pile of historical books on their desk.

Uyu

While I don't doubt for a moment that you guys didn't do a thorough research, there's one thing that slipped your attention.

Pigs. I haven't encountered these in the game yet, since I'm still in the very early stages of it, BUT I was browsing the latest screenshots out of sheer curiosity even though they probably contain spoilers, and I saw this one screenshot showing a market of sorts and there was this one lass with pig in leash.

An evenly pinkish, rotund, floppy-eared "modern" pig. Not that lankier one, with more coarse hair that is blotched or striped and which has pricked ears. A pig that's still more akin to its wild cousin.

I'm mentioning this because I hope, that it's not too late to "save" any possible pigs featuring in the future chapters of the game. Not that I know if there even will be swines of any other sort than the two-legged variety... But it's always a little bit disheartening to see something like this occurring in games that aren't as restricted as, well, live series or movies would be. They're restricted by the ugly mugs of actors and the current results of breeding of various domestic animals. Games, on the other hand, shouldn't suffer for such limitations!

I dearly hope that you don't have any potatoes or tobacco in the game... There was this one game, more of a demo, on now defunct Desura I had misfortune of buying, it was called The Tower, I think, and the setting was 11th century England or so the developer claimed. But despite this there was a pair of guards in the dungeon, talking about potato stew or some such food involving potatoes (not chips though, I'm sure). Yeah, you see what I mean?

But all in all, you have done a great work and I hope all the best for you guys! ...and despite all the things I wrote concerning pigs and potatoes, I mean that.

[Lysmerry]

Originally posted by Uyu:

Originally posted by mister.hister:

Not to make a new post, I think thus one would fit.

I was wondering how much historical authenticy has been put into the visuals of the game like clothes, arhitecture, etc.?

Hi mister.hister,

actually A LOT. We used the same books Ken Follett used for his research. On top of that we researched every inch of the time in order to present you with an authentic representation of the 12th century. How did the ordinary people live? How did the nobles live? From which cups did they drink? Which material was it? So many questions. We learned a lot.

We had a small library in our office rooms just for the books and every 2D artist had a pile of historical books on their desk.

Uyu

I really appreciated the mostly accurate clothing choices. I understand the artistic choices for some of the characters (for example married women, at least noblewomen always covered their hair, but Aliena did not because it represented her wildness to some extent.) While I am not an expert on the period, I appreciated that the gamenot conform to "ye olde medieval" stereotypes. There were limitations as far as fitting, dyes, and ornaments, especially for poorer people. The accuracy of the visuals really shines through.