Immortal Enemy Mission is Just Flat Wrong (Suggestions?)

[jimmybus]

Before I explain my pain, if you don't have anything more useful to add than your disdain for inferior gamers, please, I beg you, hold your tongue. Amazes me that there's always someone who feels it necessary to publically point out how easy a certain game/mission was for him. I mean what purpose does that kind of comment serve? I admit I'm a neophyte gamer, who doesn't live in his mother's basement eating HotPockets and playing video games all day, but I spent a great deal of time trying to reasonably master this game, including, most recently, playing all the Death Runs, where I not only won, but scored some of the lowest times possible. All of which I assumed would help prepare me for Immortal Enemy. But while the Death Runs scattered across the map were both challenging and immensely fun, the Immortal Enemy mission is insanely unstable and unfair. I'm not an expert at this game, at any game for that matter, but I'm competent enough that this mission should at least be possible to complete. (I believe my Mad Max Skill Level is in the mid-seventies.)
I've run this stupid mission at least 20 times, adjusting my car customization and mission strategy from one end of the spectrum to the other. With every possible car and Max upgrade obtained, I've tried customizing the car for maximum durability and damage (at the cost of slower speeds), or, for less durability and higher speeds. I've tried focusing on control verses speed, and then the opposite. I've tried slowing down enough that I take less damage from even the smallest contact with just about any damned thing on the course, counting on reports that Stank is always within reach, no matter how far ahead he gets. I've also tried throwing caution to the wind and chasing him down like a bat out of hell, from the very beginning. Nothing works, not even now that I've run the darned thing so many times, I pretty much know the course by heart. And I'm now convinced nothing works because this mission is so poorly and/or unfairly designed. Here's what I mean: Nothing about this particular gameplay or car control is consistent with any other part of the game. The learning curve is impossible because the car doesn't handle like any other part of the game. The steering is either too sensitive, or, too restrictive. Finding a relatively stable line is often much more difficult than it needs to be, even at an intentionally high level of challenge, and far too frequently such a hard-earned tack is instantly destroyed simply by targeting. And I don't mean just targeting enemies running behind the Magnus; often targeting enemies to the side or even directly ahead will change the perspective enough that when it releases you find yourself on a tack you can control soon enough to avoid walls and other obstacles; and of course the slightest contact will often reduce the car's health by a quarter. It doesn't take but a couple/few minor collisions to reduce the car's health enough that losing is a foregone conclusion. Even if you go out of your way to pass through the fire extinguishers, whatever health you recover is too quickly lost again, and often results in Stank getting far enough ahead that catching up while protecting small reserves of heath is impossible. And here's the thing: the sensitivity of the car to damage in this race far exceeds any other part of the game. Not only that, but it's dramatically more difficult to control. I get that this mission is supposed to be more difficult than other parts of the game, but there's no reason it can't be both difficult AND fun. If you completely change the way the car handles and its sensitivity to damage, it unfairly excludes gamers who may not be experienced enough to adapt in such a way, and at such a speed, that success is at least possible with a certain level of effort. Such is not the case here. And it's not just unfair design: at its worst, I believe the design here is both poor and lazy. Not only because of an inherent bias against gamers with less advanced skill-sets, but because the developers didn't at least attempt to maintain some consistency with the rest of the game. There's no reason why this mission couldn't have been designed to be challenging and consistent and fair, all at the same time. Nowhere else in the game does just bumping a structure or obstacle reduce the car's health at such a dramatic rate. Nowhere else in the game is the car so bizarrely unstable and difficult to control. If you're going to change the dynamic so severely, then at least build in places prior to this where the less advanced gamer can gain some measure of exposure. That's unfair enough on its own, without a certain level of laziness in the design. My sense is that the developers didn't bother to design the level of difficulty in Immortal Enemy in a manner that was, in at least some measure, logical and intuitive, or, most importantly, consistent with the rest of the game. This severe inconsistency and shallow design is no more apparent in a strange dichotomy I recently discovered. After 20 or more attempts, I had a strong sense of when recovering from such unavoidable damage, resulting from even small levels of impact (collisions largely unavoidable given the insane inability to consistently control the car), well enough to not only catch up with Stank, but to have any chance of destroying his car while fighting off all the other cars. I developed a sense of when it became more practical and expedient to restart the mission. Unless you want to exit it all the way back out and restart from the Main Menu, which means starting the mission from the beginning cutscene, rather than the start of the race, you can't just stop and restart the race while in progress. My solution to this was to expedite my own death so the race automatically restarted. And it was here that I could see just how poorly and unfairly this mission was designed. And if you don't believe me, try this for yourself. During the race, and especially whenever you're anywhere near Stank himself, an inordinate amount of health is reduced at even the smallest collision. However, if you stop racing and attempt to expedite your destruction by intentionally running into walls or traps, suddenly the level of damage reverts back to something approximating normal gameplay. IOW, if I was actively pursuing Stand, it only took a few minor collisions to reduce my health to an unrecoverable level, but if I stopped pursuing and just started running into obstacles or walls, it would take at least three times the number of impacts to trigger my destruction. If this inconsistency was intentional, it's impossible to fathom why, and if it wasn't, it's hard to fathom how the same developers that designed a game and narrative that is, at the very least, rich and beautiful, could design something as flawed and lazy and unfair as Immortal Enemy. A game, by definition, is supposed to be fun. Regardless of how difficult or challenging or beautiful, a game should never stop being fun. Otherwise, what's the point? And I'm here to tell you, this game stopped being fun for me after about the 15th attempt at this mission. It started being more chore than fun as WB games support team began asking me to undertake these long and arduous troubleshooting procedures to fix a glitch in the Ashes to Ashes Wasteland mission that prevented me from completing it even after completing all the mission requirements, but now with Immortal Enemy, any semblance of enjoyment has completely disappeared. Which sucks because the game prior to this was engaging enough that I'll feel cheated if I can't get to the end of the story. And the only way to do that is apparently to suffer this interminable nightmare of a buggering, piece of crap mission. It's impossible to express how frustrating it is to just keep repeating this mission over and over, trying every conceivable strategy and style of play, hoping and hoping that maybe just one time I'll drop down into some random hole in the madness that somehow allows me to finally finish. Over and over and over, until, by random fluke, I finally beat it. I mean, what other choice do I have? I either give up now and throw the damend thing out the window (and after 20 or 30 attempts, no one could argue I haven't earned that right--ridicule-free), or, just keep trying, each time having a little bit more of my soul sucked away, until I do nothing more than get lucky. And the shame of that is knowing full well it's not likely to be worth it when I do. Having said all that, if you can offer any insight, other than pointing out how easy it was for you (and aren't you special), and how stupid I must be for having this must trouble, please, by all means... Although I swear I'm not nearly as bad as this diatribe might suggest--every other part of this game I've done really well at. I know I've likely tried every strategy out there (either before or after the fact), but if you had at least some measure of the same difficulty, and discovered something unusual that worked for you, I'm all ears.

[Arrogant Bandit]

(I did not read everything, but am getting that this is about the Stank gum race)

If so.

Upgrades:

No ram.
Med. Armor.
Max. engine.
Max exhaust
6th tires.
Max. Nitro.
Max thunderpoon, if possible.

Ornamens:
Weapon boosts.

Strategy:

From the start of the race spam nitro untill you are close, but still behind Stank.
Try to maintain close, safe distance.
Only use boost when you need to catch up and on straight roads.
Doge mines, obviously.
Ignore other cars.
Only focus on Stank.
Do not aim.
But when you have a clear line of shight just spam the fire button.

Hopefully you'll have him down pretty fast this way.

[Arrogant Bandit]

Worked twice so far.
And one took three tries. (first time)
Other in two tries.

[󠀡]

Why did you have to write a whole book on your problems with the Immortal Enemy Mission? You could have just asked what's the best way to complete it. Arrogant Bandit's post is exactly what you need to do.

[jjwinel]

I had the best luck with maxed V6, highest suspension i had atm, tussel bar, low armor, best tires available at time and maxed thunderpoon. Pretty much ignored the other cars, didn't bother with killing them unless it was absolutely necessary and just spammed thunderpoon on Stank Gum's rig. Don't try to go balls out, just keep a steady pace with enough distance between you and the rig to avoid his mines and flame thrower. Good luck and hope you beat it. I know it's frustrating, took me several attempts before I found a build and strategy that worked for me.

[jimmybus]

Yes, I know. I wrote too much. But just because I made the mistake of venting and feeding off my own emotions, didn't mean you had to read it. As it happens, I had already tried much of what Arrogant Bandit suggested, w/ possibly some key omissions. My latest car setup is already exactly like Bandit's suggestion, but somehow it never occurred to me to use quick fire rather than aiming, which seems to throw everything out of whack. I tend to aim and fire quickly anyway, so the difference between the two got muddled in my brain. I had also already tried jumping on Stank right out of the gate, but had not tried ignoring the other cars; which makes sense given how little damage the cars do in comparison to bumping into a wall. My latest strategy has been to go aggressively after Stank, while taking out the cars around him. I haven't tried just completely ignoring all the other cars. I think what's been so frustrating is just how many times I've failed this mission. Seriously, I've done great with the rest of the game, so it amazes me that I could fail this one mission so many times. Even hearing that it took some of you guys 3 or 4 times to beat, makes me fell like an idiot, since I have literally failed at least 20 times. And that's some serious failure. No matter, though. I have a good feeling about some of these suggestions. Thanks guys.

[jimmybus]

It took a couple more runs, but I finally got it. JJWinel's and Arrogant Bandit's suggestions were most helpful, but also increasing the brightness on my TV, and figuring out that it's best to get Stank as quickly as possible, since each lap gets progressively more difficult. In the race I finally beat, I blew a hole in the first set of cars at the starting line with a Thunderpoon, nitroed through the hole, and immediately started quick firing at Stank. I probably had him halfway into the first lap. I apologize for burying my earlier request for insight in such a long diatribe. If I had been on the other side, I doubt I would have read it myself. In any event, much gratitude for the help. The good that came out of getting my ars kicked 20+ times by the race portion of Immortal Enemy, was a relative breeze beating Scrotus and his minions in the second part.

[󠀡]

Glad you finally got it. You write so much and in detail, you should be a reviewer.

[jjwinel]

Glad it worked for you. I didn't keep track how many attempts I made but it was a lot and was getting frustrated as well. I was going at it with wrong frame of mind. Heavy armor and grill and trying to eliminate the other vehicles as well. Though I finally beat it I was never able to get a shot on stank gum right out of the gate. Seemed no matter how fast I fired one of the other vehicles always seemed to get in the way at the last second haha.

[Fr0zZy]

My .02: I rly enjoyed this mission, best mission in the game, so far (worst was the race before). I've cleared it on 10th run or so I think, not bothering about car setup, just starting over. Point is, as stated above - keep the distance around 2-3 car bodies and learn the map. Distance allows you to dodge mines and keeps him off using flames. And if you hit the wall or corner, you will be in big trouble: other cars start to ram you, and it will take a good amount of time to return to safe distance I was before.

[Syntax Error]

The race was a total pain for me -- beat it after maybe fifteen tries but I had to walk away from the game twice out of frustration (listening to Max & Tenderloin time and again didn't help). I beat it with max engine, tires, exhaust, no ram and heavy (2nd from best) armor which at least kept me from spinning like a top anytime I touched the walls. But the time I finally won it, I beat it almost immediately so who knows... maybe I just got lucky.

The game doesn't really prepare you for the race. All the outdoor stuff you can swerve over road and sand and rocks and it doesn't really matter how well your car handles or how skilled you are at staying on the road. The little bit of indoor driving you do before that (such as the Underdune or getting the subway car) you're putting along at 5mph rather than trying to catch a V8 while being attacked.

[Arrogant Bandit]

Glad you got it, man!
Hope you're back on track to enjoying the game!

[chlebožrout]

jimmybus doesn't even own the game.

[Arrogant Bandit]

Originally posted by Suckmytit:

jimmybus doesn't even own the game.

He's also not been online for more than a year, but still posting.

Magic? or Ghosts?

[♡ TF2 Hat Collector ♡]

Loving that wall of text, summary please?

[Arrogant Bandit]

Originally posted by Uncle Adolf:

Loving that wall of text, summary please?

Problems with the Stank Gum race.

Tried a different strategy.

Won the race.