Need tips for editing normal maps.

[SrsBznz]

I'm struggling when it comes to creating symmetry.
Since the normal maps seem to be slightly askew, even if I count individual pixels and take great care for it to look good in my image editor, it doesn't translate like that into the finished in-game model.

Instead I've had to take a screenshot of it in-game and eye it as I shave off a bit in the editor after which I once again put it into the game and repeat the cycle.
The problem is that simply judging with my eyes (rather than an objective measuring tool) means that it's very easy to create imperfections, not only is it a cumbersome process but I doubt I'll ever get it just right with this method.

I've never spent time on this stuff before and my graphical design 'skill' and general knowledge is very shallow so being unaware of something obvious is not out of the question.

[SrsBznz]

Been using GIMP so far but checked out Blender thinking that I could maybe edit while it's applied to a model, or at the very least not have to constantly load Kenshi to check how the normal map would look once applied.

The Kenshi Blender guide mentions how to import UV files, but it shows a different UI with 'UVs' being a button on the bottom header, which I don't have.

I managed to accidentally stumble onto the Texture Painting > Slots > Canvas Image which does actually let me apply the files, though whilst the shirt model applies correctly, some other part of it end up on the head.
No idea what I'm doing.

[oi__io]

I know exactly what you're going through right now. I've been there. There used to be a time when I make modifications to textures in Photoshop, make the changes in FCS, launch the game to see how it looks, go back to Photoshop rinse and repeat.

Eventually I learned how to use Blender. It makes the process somewhat simpler. I made that guide with hope that it will shorten the learning process for other people. However you will still need to learn the basics of Blender by yourself before using the guide.

There's plenty of Blender tutorials for beginners on Youtube and my suggestion is to start watching them. Andrew Price's tutorial helps a lot when I first started learning Blender. Give it a try.

Whatever it is that you're trying to do, if you're serious about wanting to learn a new skill, always start with the basics. After you've fully understood the basics, then we can proceed with how you can view the textures in Blender while simultaneously editing the texture files in photo editor of your choice.

[SrsBznz]

Originally posted by oi__io:

I know exactly what you're going through right now. I've been there. There used to be a time when I make modifications to textures in Photoshop, make the changes in FCS, launch the game to see how it looks, go back to Photoshop rinse and repeat.

Eventually I learned how to use Blender. It makes the process somewhat simpler. I made that guide with hope that it will shorten the learning process for other people. However you will still need to learn the basics of Blender by yourself before using the guide.

There's plenty of Blender tutorials for beginners on Youtube and my suggestion is to start watching them. Andrew Price's tutorial helps a lot when I first started learning Blender. Give it a try.

Whatever it is that you're trying to do, if you're serious about wanting to learn a new skill, always start with the basics. After you've fully understood the basics, then we can proceed with how you can view the textures in Blender while simultaneously editing the texture files in photo editor of your choice.

It all started with my passion for tasteful nudity and now I'm sitting here attempting to learn the basics of graphic design.
Thanks a lot for the video suggestion, will check it out tomorrow and most likely report back with further questions if it leaves something unanswered.

[oi__io]

The videos in the playlist cover the very basic of navigating Blender and shows how to make very simple shapes. It's useful to learn the UI and layout of the program plus all the basic shortcut. His explanation and pacing is extremely good for beginner to 3D modelling.

I know it might be a bit overkill if you only wanted to make modification to existing textures but if you want to work with textures it's important to understand how UV map works. The best way to understand how UV map works to me is to examine it in a 3D modelling program (in this case Blender).

Things will become clearer once you've seen how the UV map is done on a particular mesh. That way you will understand why certain part of the texture appear in certain part of the mesh and how to modify it to suit your need.

[Morkonan]

Originally posted by SrsBznz:

I'm struggling when it comes to creating symmetry.
Since the normal maps seem to be slightly askew, even if I count individual pixels and take great care for it to look good in my image editor, it doesn't translate like that into the finished in-game model.

Instead I've had to take a screenshot of it in-game and eye it as I shave off a bit in the editor after which I once again put it into the game and repeat the cycle.
The problem is that simply judging with my eyes (rather than an objective measuring tool) means that it's very easy to create imperfections, not only is it a cumbersome process but I doubt I'll ever get it just right with this method.

I've never spent time on this stuff before and my graphical design 'skill' and general knowledge is very shallow so being unaware of something obvious is not out of the question.

Just an observation:

For one - Learning 3D Modeling is an invaluable knowledge-toolset when it comes down to modding games that use 3D assets, even if you're not actually constructing 3D assets for a mod.

So, yeah, following some general 3D tutorials really helps. (see the tutorial link oi___io posted)

A "normal map" may often seem like a colorful version of an alpha/height map or bump map, but it's not exactly the same. To really generate a true "normal map" the way it was intended to be used, one needs the base mesh exposed and then needs to know the resolution and type of projection to be used to generate a normal map that allows a low res mesh to take on the visual characteristics of a higher resolution mesh, to some extent.

"Painting" on a normal map is basically just lying to the process. That's fine - ALL 3D IS A LIE. :) But, it's not, necessarily, the intended use of a normal map in the first place, so that's why all this talk of "painting normal maps" seems to result in "it's hard to do." Why is it hard to do? That's not how they're normally generated.

PS - I don't really know that what you're referring to is truly a "normal map." I haven't even bothered to look into Kenshi modding, yet. But, to put it plainly - Artistic Skill doesn't matter, here, as a normal map is basically a kind of bump map that is supposed to represent a higher resolution version than what the object actually is. At least, that is how it is traditionally used. It would be very difficult to actually generate a normal map of anything "by hand."

A free tool to generate normal maps - https://xnormal.net/ (Down atm, they're doing some work on it.)

You'll need the original object and then the altered, subdivided, object to generate the normal map properly. Blender is free, too, and may be easier for you to use. (It's a modeling app, xnormal is not.)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Normal_mapping

If you find that your changes are looking weird, it may be due to using a different projection space than the game uses. There's "tangent," which is common, and things like "world" space. I don't know Blender or what it defaults to, but you may need to check that to be sure that your result is compatible with Ogre3D, the display engine being used in Kenshi. (AFAIK, that's what they're using for that.)

http://wiki.ogre3d.org/BumpMapping