Strength vs Lock Level

[rompier02]

This is imbalanced still in this aspect. Patch notes say the str needed to bash lock must be 3 times the lock level. A level 100 lock will therefore require 300 str if this is the case. Do not think player can achieve this. Even a level 70 lock will require str beyond the Player reach. This will in fact revert back to the same state for non thieves inclined Player, having to level up Lockpicking skills. I got no problem with the previous mechanics.

Tools - can a Player with 0/1 Lockpicking Skill use Tools to unlock a lock with 100 level? Using tools as a form of aid is great but the patch notes are vauge as to the extent of lock levels it can allow the Player to open. Think the previous system was more balanced. Just have to go to proper venues/places to level Lockpicking Skill. After all a level 50 is all that is needed to open all containes in this game.

If skill exceed 100 with tools then what is the status? Will it break the skill?

[The Grand Mugwump]

I feel the strength needed to break open a lock should be based on the material and quality of what the lock is attached to. I remember reading a story somewhere about a rich man buying an unpickable lock for his wooden jewelry box only to have all of its contents stolen because the thief broke the wooden box without tampering with the lock. A lock's complexity level should have no bearing on the strength requirement to bash it (or what it is attached to) open.

[rompier02]

True. Bash is bash.Lock levels/complexityshould have no bearing. Either succeed or fail. The test should be str only. This game do not specify the materials used for safes. Most containers available to Player in build mode use iron plate/building material.

[Cenderi]

Thats only ment for simple locks, the patch states you can use tools one time use in order to get though higher locks.

If you could break them all with just stats there would be no use for lockpicking at all.

[The Grand Mugwump]

Originally posted by Cenderi:

Thats only ment for simple locks, the patch states you can use tools one time use in order to get though higher locks.

If you could break them all with just stats there would be no use for lockpicking at all.

The point of a sandbox game is to have choices. Levelling lockpicking would let you open locks quietly and safely, while levelling strength would let you smash them open and alert everything in the area along with other potential hazards.

[Erei]

Unless I'm mistaken, the highest MINIMUM skill lock is 50. That's already 150strength. Even one of the 30 minimum lockpick skill is going to ask 90, if I'm correct.
So yeah, tools or bust.

Originally posted by The Grand Mugwump:

The point of a sandbox game is to have choices.

This. When they added minimum skill to pick some chest, it greatly limited the sandbox part, because you HAD to train for it before going in the ruins. Or you would go there for basically nothing, since the goodies are in said chests.
When the update was made, they made a reset on the lockpick skills, but since I found it stupid, I cheated 2characters to 50. Since then, I have been running all the content that was added, and I don't have any character outside of the 2 cheated ones that are able to open ruins chests.
Which means, if I went legit, I would have had to train lockpicking by "stealing". I don't want to do it tho, but there are no alternatives.

It's a baby step, but it's a step nonetheless.

Levelling lockpicking would let you open locks quietly and safely, while levelling strength would let you smash them open and alert everything in the area along with other potential hazards.

I was thinking exactly that yesterday. The reason why lockpick was nerfed was because starting characters where running to the ruins in like day 5, stealth, lockpick the chests, and be rich. Sadly, the patch didn't break that way to do it (you just have to pick more lock prior to go the ruins), but greatly nerfed the "regular" play.

But if lockpick only added a noise reduction, it would nerf the early rush stealth characters the same way, since they would be too weak to survive if they pulled the spiders (which they would), while the non stealthy character would not care at all (dead spiders can't be pulled).

[rompier02]

Haven't found anything in the patch notes referring to simple locks. It does made refrence to weak locks. Question is how to define weak lock in this game. A small shack has a level 62/65 lock. Is that weak? Before this patch, Player can already break locks without str vs lock level requirement. All those Lost Libraries doors can be bashed down without complicating the mechanics. Those same doors that have level 72 lock. So player has to revert back to an already existing mechanic which work fine - levelling lock picking skill. Where is the choice for non inclined Thief style Players? If allowing the usage of Tools is meant to present such choice,it just only make a fresh start character have the ability to raid places/steal from locked containers when they are not supposed too. Player still has to level their subterfuge skills or miss out the treasures in high level locks. Besides Tools are noisy.

Bash is bash. The resulting noise from such action makes it unsuitable to be used in town houses where the occupants are sleeping/awake. This an in game mechanic where the Players stealth will influence the alert level of the occupants. In a ASL/ATL/LA where either the Player has managed to pull away the Security Bots or killed them, what is stopping the Player from bashing the locks? Why complicate matters? Before this Player cannot bash the safes/locked containers. Introducing lock bashing is excellent especially for players who have characters with 98/95 str without the str vs lock level.

[jwarper]

Only being able to bash open low level locks makes sense, and most games that have this mechanic work this way. It even works this way in real life. The strongest locks available will be more susceptible to picking than bashing.

If you want to steal things or go treasure hunting, bring a lockpicker. What RPG doesn't have a thief in the party anyways? :P Or just use tools. The dev has provided alternatives.

[rompier02]

Don't care about other games. Upper level Smuggler Bar got 2 chest with 16 lock level. Is that low level? Need 48 str to bash it. By typing the need for a lockpicker to steal things/treasure hunting you already state the necessity to level lockpicking skill. Then you contradict your type by stating what RPG doesn't have a thief in party. What good a lockpicker if he cannot pick locks? Where is the choice for player then? Tools allow a character with 1 skill in lockpick to cut any lock level with a timer around 577. It does not increase lockpicking skills from my test. Therefore any fresh character can pick any lock. Why the need for lockpicking skills then? Just simply use tools.

Who cares about RL. This is a video/computer games. RL stop in this realm. The only choices are :

1. Level up LP skill in order to open all safes/locked containers. Works fine previously & currently.

2. Use tools. Can open any locks. No need for skill. Should just remove LP skill in Character Panel.

3. Bashing. Limited to weak locks = times 3 str per lock level. Why bother?

[Melk]

Makes sense to me at a glance.
Lockpicking for when it requires haste and stealth(like stealing or not getting mauled by security bots)
Tools for raiding ruins and general purpose without having to have a thief guy
Bashing as just a bonus backup thing. Not like strength needs even more value.

[rompier02]

Why does LP have to be linked to stealth? Why should a Player be forced to tread the Thief path? LP with haste? Unless your character skills are 50 & above most locks will require time to open. I level LP skill just to open the high level lock with the goodies because there was no other choice. Now with bash there is. In fact before this you can bash doors without the str requirement. It should be applicable to locks too without the same requirement. As already typed with tools to aid in opening locks what is the need for said skill. Never typed str needs even more value. That is your type.

Didn't see in patch notes bashing is a bonus backup thing either.

[Melk]

Why should bashing be as effective as lockpicking or tools? Strength has a myriad of benefits beyond opening things while literally all lockpicking does is open things.
Tools are slower than lockpicking and they're consumables.

Originally posted by rompier02:

Didn't see in patch notes bashing is a bonus backup thing either.

The simple fact that bashing has such a hefty requirement should show that it's not meant to be an outright replacement for lockpicking or tools

[rompier02]

The simple fact is that you are fabricating. Never typed bashing is not meant to be an outright replacement for lockpicking or tools.That is your types & fiction. Why should lockpicking or using tools be more effective than bashing? Read all my post. It is all about Player choice on how to play the game.