Samuri Armor is not Balanced after the Rebalance.

[Locklave]

So rebalance is effectively done and the last act of it was to make Samuri armor better then all other Heavy chest armor. Not saying everything isn't better off then before because of the rebalance in general, but this throws away all the other Heavy Chest Pieces.

Samuri Armor is hands down the best heavy armor. The minuses are not at all equal.

It's all about the Dex loss on every chest piece but Samuri Armor. I guess we are to pretend the Attack speed/Block speed and damage loss on up to 0.7 Dex penalty is balanced vs. the no dex loss?

[Bragdras]

I think at this point it's necessary to have a little more balance patches, specifically either remove dex penalty from all armor, add penalty on all armor, or if they intend on specifically making Samurai not have dex penalty, then balance it to be effectively weaker than other heavy armor as a tradeoff for having no dex penalty.

Personally, at this point I feel like they should just remove dex penalties altogether at the very least for all medium gear. I was originally all for dex penalties but not if it ends up being the way it is right now.

When there's this few pieces of armor to pick from (especially when like half the entire armor list is just decoration with no stats) it has to be properly balanced.

The balance patches were awesome, but we need more of them to finetune where combat is going, right now it's not in a great place.

[Xero]

Publicado originalmente por Locklave:

Dex is the wrong stat to penalize I agree 100% with you on this, I believe strength should be the target stat. But they all need to be uniformed in that loss, not one being a magical unicorn.

I'm not sure why you think strength should be penalized? How would that even work? A person who can lift 100Kg is still able to lift 100Kg regardless of what he is wearing, the only thing that gets affected by what is worn is one's ability to do things easily AKA their dexterity.

[Erei]

Publicado originalmente por Xero:

Publicado originalmente por Locklave:

Dex is the wrong stat to penalize I agree 100% with you on this, I believe strength should be the target stat. But they all need to be uniformed in that loss, not one being a magical unicorn.

I'm not sure why you think strength should be penalized? How would that even work? A person who can lift 100Kg is still able to lift 100Kg regardless of what he is wearing, the only thing that gets affected by what is worn is one's ability to do things easily AKA their dexterity.

Dex penalty is just unfair and uncalled for. It drastically nerf cut over blunt for no reason. Cut weapons are not the best, even, usually blunt are.
Then, it decrease tankiness, so yeah, your armor is actually less effective. Go figure.

And for a faction balance, it makes the UC superior to everyone else.

No sense at all. Just nerf the weapons speed instead.

[Xero]

Publicado originalmente por Erei:

Then, it decrease tankiness, so yeah, your armor is actually less effective. Go figure.

How does it decrease tankiness exactly?

[Locklave]

Publicado originalmente por Xero:

Publicado originalmente por Locklave:

Dex is the wrong stat to penalize I agree 100% with you on this, I believe strength should be the target stat. But they all need to be uniformed in that loss, not one being a magical unicorn.

I'm not sure why you think strength should be penalized? How would that even work? A person who can lift 100Kg is still able to lift 100Kg regardless of what he is wearing, the only thing that gets affected by what is worn is one's ability to do things easily AKA their dexterity.

Bare in mind that exhaustion needs to be factored into general usage as it isn't a mechanic in the game but is a major factor on heavy armor irl.

I can carry 50Kg in real life np, I'm a big guy. But can I do it for 8 hours? Can I maintain that weight in a fight for my life? Fights are far more draining then walking around. Strength is the closest thing to Stamina in this game.

So dexterity is not the only thing.

Publicado originalmente por Xero:

How does it decrease tankiness exactly?

Block speed is tied directly to dex, less dex less blocking, more hits taken.

[harberst]

Just spitballing a bit here, but I wonder if part of the armor penalty problem is because it's percentage based so it always 'feels' bad, you can never out-stat a percentage. Unlike weapons which give a flat number plus or minus to attack/defense.

[Locklave]

Publicado originalmente por harberst:

Just spitballing a bit here, but I wonder if part of the armor penalty problem is because it's percentage based so it always 'feels' bad, you can never out-stat a percentage. Unlike weapons which give a flat number plus or minus to attack/defense.

I have no objection to all heavy armors having a minus damage %. Or a minus Strength %. I have a problem with 1 set being a damn unicorn in a group of horses.

The problem is the Samuri set is as I've outlined superior.

[Xero]

Publicado originalmente por Locklave:

Block speed is tied directly to dex, less dex less blocking, more hits taken.

So you take slightly more hits, that's not much of a cost for being able to withstand being hit a lot more. I mean, it's hard to say you're losing tanking capabilities cause you don't block as fast when you're able to take multiple hits from someone like the bugmaster when you're in heavy armor. Light armor does NOT get that luxury.

[Erei]

Publicado originalmente por Xero:

Publicado originalmente por Locklave:

Block speed is tied directly to dex, less dex less blocking, more hits taken.

So you take slightly more hits, that's not much of a cost for being able to withstand being hit a lot more. I mean, it's hard to say you're losing tanking capabilities cause you don't block as fast when you're able to take multiple hits from someone like the bugmaster when you're in heavy armor. Light armor does NOT get that luxury.

Avoid being hit : total damage done : 0. Take a hit on a nice armor : still do damage.

Which also mean samurai armor>everything else. There are no competition. Unless you are stealth/MA/ranged, it's the best armor all around. In fact, the damage penalty and speed penalty is actually better than the straight dex penalty for cut. So yes, it's the best armor, with less penalty.

It's ironic, it used to be the best armor in the past, and they buffed it. While nerfing everything else. Go figure.

Publicado originalmente por harberst:

Just spitballing a bit here, but I wonder if part of the armor penalty problem is because it's percentage based so it always 'feels' bad, you can never out-stat a percentage. Unlike weapons which give a flat number plus or minus to attack/defense.

The major issue is how unbalanced it is. Cut weapons, which are already bad against armor, are nerfed by the penalty. While blunt weapons have literally no penalty whatsoever, except for the same block speed.
There are no reasons at all to do so.

[Cenderi]

Publicado originalmente por Xero:

Publicado originalmente por Locklave:

Block speed is tied directly to dex, less dex less blocking, more hits taken.

So you take slightly more hits, that's not much of a cost for being able to withstand being hit a lot more. I mean, it's hard to say you're losing tanking capabilities cause you don't block as fast when you're able to take multiple hits from someone like the bugmaster when you're in heavy armor. Light armor does NOT get that luxury.

Erm, this has nothing to do with what anyones saying. The point -is- that this heavy armour does NOT have a dex penalty, thus you take no more hits for that survivability, OTHER heavy armour does.

[Xero]

Publicado originalmente por Cenderi:

Erm, this has nothing to do with what anyones saying. The point -is- that this heavy armour does NOT have a dex penalty, thus you take no more hits for that survivability, OTHER heavy armour does.

It relates to my suggestion of heavy armors penalizing attack and block speed.

Publicado originalmente por Erei:

Which also mean samurai armor>everything else. There are no competition. Unless you are stealth/MA/ranged, it's the best armor all around. In fact, the damage penalty and speed penalty is actually better than the straight dex penalty for cut. So yes, it's the best armor, with less penalty.

Let me clarify a previous point of mine, namely that heavy armor should penalize attack and blocking speed. I say this because consider that we've yet to get mass combat.

Heavy Armor: This is the armor you choose when you fight a strong target. It's weakness would be that when outnumbered the wearer would suffer a death by a thousand cuts type of scenario. This would mean that one highly skilled person in heavy armor wouldn't necesarrily breeze through places like the fog lands with ease.

Light Armor: This armor would excel when you're outnumbered by those weaker enemies, giving you a boost to attack and block speeds so you can deal with your foes swiftly. Sure the bonuses could help you in other situations, but these bonuses come with the risk of being KOd or killed in a single hit.

Medium Armor: This is the armor to choose to be a jack of all trades so to say, while you'll not excel when outnumbered, you'll be more likely to walk away from a fight where you were outnumbered. Likewise, when fighting a stronger opponent you'll not necesarrily be oneshot if you get hit.

[Erei]

I do'nt think people disagree with having that. We are just saying that dex penalty is a bad penalty because it's too broad and not enough at the same time. Too broad because it affect defense to (on a piece of armor, go figure), and not enough because blunt weapons are not penalized while cut are.
Dex penalty is wrong, just as block speed would (or strength). When you are hit, you are staggered (which put you at risk to get more hit, or even worse, stagger lock), and your stats decrease. I'm not expecting from a heavy armor to take more hit.

Oh, and if you want a good laugh, look the various chainmail dex penalty. Yep, it's the highest one around. Apparently, properly crafted chainmail are more unwieldy than pieces of metal sheet wielded on scavenged clothing. It's ridiculous, who would use them ? And why so high, they are undershirt, not main armor.

[Xero]

Publicado originalmente por Erei:

When you are hit, you are staggered (which put you at risk to get more hit, or even worse, stagger lock), and your stats decrease. I'm not expecting from a heavy armor to take more hit.

Actually, depending on your toughness, you may or may not get staggered. So to balance out the lower block speed I suggested for heavy armor, it could give an increase to toughness. That way even if you are hit, you may not actually get staggered on top of being able to have a higher damage resist.

[Locklave]

Publicado originalmente por Xero:

Publicado originalmente por Locklave:

Block speed is tied directly to dex, less dex less blocking, more hits taken.

So you take slightly more hits, that's not much of a cost for being able to withstand being hit a lot more. I mean, it's hard to say you're losing tanking capabilities cause you don't block as fast when you're able to take multiple hits from someone like the bugmaster when you're in heavy armor. Light armor does NOT get that luxury.

You are hurting my head. Samuri armor doesn't lose this Block rate.

Seriously what thread do you think you are responding to?

Holy Plate has a 30% Dex loss
Merc Plate has a 20% Dex loss
Samuri Plate has no Dex loss and more Blunt damage reduction then both the above heavy armors. HENCE THE TITLE OF THE THREAD.

Go reread the title or maybe reread the damn post chain you are part of. Stop just mindlessly posting responces without context.

[Xero]

Publicado originalmente por Locklave:

Go reread the title or maybe reread the damn post chain you are part of. Stop just mindlessly posting responces without context.

So basically, I can't make suggestion here? Only complain?