All out war between HN and UC, who wins?

[Lor]

Regardless of any other factions influences etc, in an all out war between the two, who would win and why?

[SmallGespenst]

reminder: there are about three weapons above "refitted blade" quality in all the armies of the HN. the blunt damage of hackers helps against armoured targets, but the UC are far better equipped. they'd also be able to force a war on two fronts if they sent troops from their southern regions through the wetlands or Shek territory.
and that's only as long as other factions aren't taken into consideration, it's very possible the the Sheck would leap on an opening provided by escalation of the HN-UC conflicts and the HN are already taking losses from the Deadhive, possibly cannibals as well depending on how good of a job the Flotsam do of holding them off.
then there's the matter of the Dust Bandits, if the HN patrols dry up then there's nothing stopping the Dust Bandits from crippling the HN's farming regions, and as the saying goes, an army marches on its stomach.

[~ Fabulous ~]

technology and population wise UC...also UC samurai got his limbs chopped, put some robotic limbs and he is good as new, while if HN paladin got his limbs chopped he is out of the war game forever

[Endgunner]

6/10 times during a desert brawl the HN comes out on top with fewer fighters, they just have to much AOE, also the HN has more strong fighters but less in a squad and more damage and AOE while the UC has more fighters slightly better armor but less training and less level 60+ fighters.

Now the shek kick everybody`s ass so in any war involving all of Kenshi the shek would come out on top hands down.

[Wanted111who]

Цитата допису MadArtillery:

In my experience leading samarai squads against the holy nation many times the holy nation troops seem to actually perform better every time. It really comes down to those high paladins as they can wreck a samarai sargent pretty easily and pretty much carry the day. Can get up to 2 of those in many holy nation squads and patrols, even worse if an inquisitor leads the patrol.

I got different experienced, in my current play files, i allied with UC+TG, using 2 active mod (256 recruitment limit+prisoner recruitment). Setting up base in great desert between heft, stoat and trader edge. I purposely lead the samurai sergeant group to bast region whenever bodyguard contract is triggered/i purposely triggered it by following the samurai sergeant around in great desert.
The group normally take down 2 group of HN patrol lead by high paladin + paladin, sometimes i purposely lead them to 1X HN patrol lead by inquisitor + high paladin and they still edge the battle, often time this is enough to down the sergeant but not his follower. I noticed samurai conscript can hold their ground against paladin, no joke.
I don't participate in the battle and just watch from far and pick up the down sergeant, you know why.
I also wandered around bast often and set my character to follow sergeant whenever i found a sergeant and from my observation 1 sergeant can take on group of 4 holy sentinel + 1/2 paladin.
I also tried leading 2 group of HN patrol to drin as i am getting ambitious and had enough with sergeant level, set my character to follow the captain there and wasted 4 in game day without any reward, that bugger just won't go down and at 1 point he's even fighting 1 high paladin + 5/6 paladin alone until he get back up from gate guard that won their battles.

I understand the lore of UC in and out having allied with them now, Trader guild is the real faction in charge of UC, UC noble like monies and trader guild have them. From trader guild perspective, they want the war to continue and just keep HN occupied, I got this response from Yamdu (TG second in command) when i told him i want to defeat HN. They have no interest to defeat HN for 2 reason, to keep Shek at bay and for business.
When i talk to emperor Tengu with same subject, He just couldn't care less about HN, I got more interesting response when speak with Tengu right hand man about HN, his response is down give Tengu any funny idea. UC is lead by bunch of selfish Noble who just care for themselves and despite their faction name, they aren't united, they don't even care to put an end to the rebellion, Tengu is asking me (player) to put an end of the rebellion for him without any support from the noble.From this Lore, it shows that UC can 100% defeat HN, but they don't want to.

and in bast, Rebel,UC, HN and cannibal is having FFA. So rebel won't join anyone.

Edit - btw, if you using prisoner recruitment mod, will suggest not to recruit bunch of sergeant from bast like myself, by day 100, reach tier 6 research, 100+ strong army with 66 average stats and thing get very boring, wiped out cannibal tribe and purposely hold back and not wiping out HN so i can get HN raid every week, no turret in base, even that is boring. Holding back on Tinfist as well, don't want it to end so soon.

[caliwish]

“Now the shek kick everybody`s ♥♥♥ so in any war involving all of Kenshi the shek would come out on top hands down.”... Endgamer

There is another group that may just wait until everyone is to weak to fight back and then take over Kenshi.

[Minty]

Цитата допису Wanted111who:

by day 100, reach tier 6 research, 100+ strong army with 66 average stats and thing get very boring

Although I have the 256 recruitment boost mod, I am genuinely trying to cap my faction at 30 members for exactly this reason. We need people to work in our home, which leaves me with only 1 active, mobile squad at any given time. If I start going over 30, the game simply becomes too easy, because you can mass train multiple squads and just swarm all of your enemies. The 30 cap prevents this and forces us to really train the hell out of 1 squad if we hope to accomplish anything significant.

[Lor]

Цитата допису ♫Endgunner♬:

6/10 times during a desert brawl the HN comes out on top with fewer fighters, they just have to much AOE, also the HN has more strong fighters but less in a squad and more damage and AOE while the UC has more fighters slightly better armor but less training and less level 60+ fighters.

Now the shek kick everybody`s ass so in any war involving all of Kenshi the shek would come out on top hands down.

I don't think the shek would win anything, to be honest I think the Shek are the weakest out of all three. The HN managed to nearly drive them to extinction, it was only because Esata kicked Shagar off the throne that they still exist today. They're really great individual warriors, but they definitely lack the numbers and co-ordination the UC and HN have, otherwise how else would the HN nearly destroy their entire country?

[Minty]

Цитата допису Naylor:

Цитата допису ♫Endgunner♬:

6/10 times during a desert brawl the HN comes out on top with fewer fighters, they just have to much AOE, also the HN has more strong fighters but less in a squad and more damage and AOE while the UC has more fighters slightly better armor but less training and less level 60+ fighters.

Now the shek kick everybody`s ass so in any war involving all of Kenshi the shek would come out on top hands down.

I don't think the shek would win anything, to be honest I think the Shek are the weakest out of all three. The HN managed to nearly drive them to extinction, it was only because Esata kicked Shagar off the throne that they still exist today. They're really great individual warriors, but they definitely lack the numbers and co-ordination the UC and HN have, otherwise how else would the HN nearly destroy their entire country?

This is a fairly astute observation. They do only exist because Esata and her advisor rule with a modicum of intelligence (making peace with the UC). They are valiant and aggressive and effective fighters, but they fit the format of wandering swordsmen, not rank and file troops. I could see them doing well, but only as part of something else. A world dominated by a large, passive ally is really the only hope they have as an alternative to isolation or even extinction. That said, the Shek people are already fully integrated into the UC, Tech Hunter and Anti-Slaver societies, so unless the HN managed to cleanse the world of all non-human, their race would undoubtedly survive in some form. But not as a race nation that controls its own territory.

[MadArtillery]

Ya I don't know how long the shek will last ruling their own nation. Stone Golem won't be around forever and then they'll be back to pushing their own destruction. Self destructive cultures don't last forever and self destructive certainly describes the shek.

[SmallGespenst]

the Shek are probably the strongest faction in terms of individual soldiers, but they the worst off numerically and much like the HN there are a load of other threats dividing their attention, between the Beserkers, the Dust Bandits and the Band of Bones there's a pretty serious bandit problem, and the Krals Chosen represent a serious political threat, the Shek Kingdom isn't far from a state of civil war.
and then there's the gnawing threat of the Bugmaster to the south...

[angrytrex]

I think with or without alliances, the UC would win pretty easily. They have forces to both the south and East, and the HN would be fighting on multiple fronts with no where to go. In the worst case scenario, the HN would be completely surrounded and attacked from all 4 cardinal directions, where as the UC owns all the territory to the coast and would likely only have to deal with a western front..

Even if the UC attacked with no Allies, the HN would still not be able to find safety to the north (Flotsam, Cannibals), East (Fog / Western Hive) or South (UC, Shek). The UC however would be able to move through Flotsam territory, Western Hive and around (but not through) Shek territory to attack from the North, West, and South simultaneously. Either way, both factions would want to probably get control of The Hub as soon as possible.

[Lor]

Цитата допису angrytrex:

I think with or without alliances, the UC would win pretty easily. They have forces to both the south and East, and the HN would be fighting on multiple fronts with no where to go. In the worst case scenario, the HN would be completely surrounded and attacked from all 4 cardinal directions, where as the UC owns all the territory to the coast and would likely only have to deal with a western front..

Even if the UC attacked with no Allies, the HN would still not be able to find safety to the north (Flotsam, Cannibals), East (Fog / Western Hive) or South (UC, Shek). The UC however would be able to move through Flotsam territory, Western Hive and around (but not through) Shek territory to attack from the North, West, and South simultaneously. Either way, both factions would want to probably get control of The Hub as soon as possible.

I think you're vastly overestimating the strength of the UC here, there is no way for the UC to go around and attack the HN from the north or the west because of the threat from the cannibals and fogmen, they could try to fight their way through these threats but that would simply make their supply lines vulnerable and would likely be completely ineffective anyway - the HN have had hundreds of years to set up infrastructure and fortresses on all of these fronts, a tired, weakened and vulnerable army wouldn't really have any impact on them.

Nor could the UC attack from the south through hub, since that would require crossing the Iron hills and dead lands which is completely toxic to everyone except for skeletons and Hive, of course groups of Hive soldiers could cross but that would be an insignificant amount of troops and they could likely be used more effectively elsewhere. However if for whatever reason the UC were determined to attack from the south they'd need to cross territory owned by the swampers and dust bandits as well, again leaving their supply lines vulnerable, and after they made this massive journey, they'd likely find that the Hub has already been taken by the Holy nation, seeing as it's extremely close to Stack.

The only way the UC would be able to attack the HN with any force would be through the bast region, where there is already a huge stalemate, and not only that the UC would need to deal with their rebels in the north.

[MadArtillery]

Okrans shield is a pretty big part of this. Holy Nation having that mega fortess is a big deal especially as rogue machines wandering in will run into the attacker first ironically adding to the defence despite being hostile to the defenders. United Cities has little defence locations set up so holy nation can attack with much more impunity with the mountains to defend them with fortresses in the passes. In a vacuum without the other factions it definitely wouldn't be pretty. Been thinking about it for a bit and the United Cities REALLY needs to do something about that as if the shek fell they likely would as well soon after.

Gotta give the holy nation credit for one thing, they sure know how to fortify.

[Lor]

Цитата допису MadArtillery:

Okrans shield is a pretty big part of this. Holy Nation having that mega fortess is a big deal especially as rogue machines wandering in will run into the attacker first ironically adding to the defence despite being hostile to the defenders. United Cities has little defence locations set up so holy nation can attack with much more impunity with the mountains to defend them with fortresses in the passes. In a vacuum without the other factions it definitely wouldn't be pretty. Been thinking about it for a bit and the United Cities REALLY needs to do something about that as if the shek fell they likely would as well soon after.

Gotta give the holy nation credit for one thing, they sure know how to fortify.

This is definitely something people forget about the HN, all routes into their territory are guarded by large fortresses. Okran's Shield guards the mountain passes from the Iron hills - an area already difficult to pass considering it's toxic to humans and shek. And Okran's Fist guarding the mountain passes to the north, specifically near the Bast region, which coincidentally is probably the only land route available to the UC if they want to invade the Holy nation without travelling for weeks around the deadlands or through territory inhabited by cannibals and fogmen. Their southern border isn't as well defended, however it would be pretty difficult for the UC to move any meaningful amount of troops there, the only threats it needs to deal with are from the dust bandits.

The fortresses can also act as sturdy position for them to attack the United cities, the UC really don't have much in the way of defence along their borders with the HN, this is probably the reason why they managed to destroy Bast at all. There isn't much stopping the HN from taking huge swaths of territory aside from Drin, a ruined town with a garrison of UC Samurai, however that town is in a state of near-complete ruin, and would definitely not be able to stand up against a coordinated Holy nation invasion. Once Drin falls there is nothing until Stoat and Sho-Battai.

[Endgunner]

Цитата допису awhurley:

the Shek are probably the strongest faction in terms of individual soldiers, but they the worst off numerically and much like the HN there are a load of other threats dividing their attention, between the Beserkers, the Dust Bandits and the Band of Bones there's a pretty serious bandit problem, and the Krals Chosen represent a serious political threat, the Shek Kingdom isn't far from a state of civil war.
and then there's the gnawing threat of the Bugmaster to the south...

All factions have unlimited soldiers when you think of it. All i am sayin is any shek patrol will murder any other faction, some stronger shek patrols could take out a base.