How to train a bull?

[Christine Wurmblut]

Hello,
I recently started a brand new playtrough with Genesis this time.
I thought it might be a cool idea to add a bull to my party, not just as an animal of burden, but also as a fighter.
But thats where my question beginns: Does a bull get stonger trough normal stat gain like any other character? For example I trained his athletics quite a bit because I wanted him to become faster but even if the stat got higher he never became any faster.
Can a bull even become a good fighter at any point? As of now he goes down after a few hits since he can neither block nor dodge.
I would prefer to have an actual member of my group instead of a living backpack thats just beeing carried around for inventory space.

Any tips? Any experiences?

Any other animal recomendations that can carry a lot but can also fight but are not completely overpowered?

[Undead Rufus]

I don't use animals much, but they gain stats like every other character and, I assume, have similar bonuses and penalties. The wiki says bulls move at 9-31 mph, so they must improve athletics over time like everything else.

I do know that bulls, and especially wild bulls, can become devastating fighters. (You might need a mod to recruit wild bulls—can't remember).

[lizardmang]

Animals level stats the same way humanoids do. Due to their lack of defensive capabilities, they'll always be pretty fragile compared to a humanoid with good armor and high melee defense or dodge, so their effectiveness drops off against high-level opponents. On the other hand, they can't lose limbs, and I don't think they can even become crippled, iirc.

Bulls and garru excel at fighting large groups of weaker enemies due to their AoE attacks and lack of armor. Bonedogs and goats have decent dps due to their fast attack rates, but are best suited to ganging up on a single opponent to overwhelm them or attacking someone who's busy defending themselves against a humanoid attacker.

Pack bulls can actually get pretty fast eventually. Mine got up to ~25 mph through normal use, and if the wiki is correct, they can reach 31 max (though domesticated bulls purchased from HN farms are listed at 14 max).

[Beep!]

In one play-through, my group had a bull. He could run 25 mph, and in battle he was like a freakin' tank.

They don't become crippled, like a human crawling on the ground, but leg damage does reduce their speed.

If you're training one from a pup, be aware that if your group is defeated in battle, your enemies (damn you, Dust Bandits!) might butcher him for meat.

[Christine Wurmblut]

Originally posted by silentprotagonistsays:

Animals level stats the same way humanoids do. Due to their lack of defensive capabilities, they'll always be pretty fragile compared to a humanoid with good armor and high melee defense or dodge, so their effectiveness drops off against high-level opponents. On the other hand, they can't lose limbs, and I don't think they can even become crippled, iirc.

Bulls and garru excel at fighting large groups of weaker enemies due to their AoE attacks and lack of armor. Bonedogs and goats have decent dps due to their fast attack rates, but are best suited to ganging up on a single opponent to overwhelm them or attacking someone who's busy defending themselves against a humanoid attacker.

Pack bulls can actually get pretty fast eventually. Mine got up to ~25 mph through normal use, and if the wiki is correct, they can reach 31 max (though domesticated bulls purchased from HN farms are listed at 14 max).

Alright so I guess I only have the weak version. I actually bought him at a HN farm. Do Nomads sell non-domesticated bulls? Because mine really does stop at 14mph.

So if I get a good one and he gets beaten up, eventually his toughness will make him at least a semi tank?

[Morkonan]

Originally posted by Christine Wurmblut:

...Any tips? Any experiences?..

You won't be doing much with them until they level up to Elder. Their stats are capped per age-range.

Even then, they have no way to mitigate damage. (No armor)

Elder Bulls against Starving Bandits is just plan... hilarious. Against Dust-Bandits and those types, it can still be kind of funny. But, as wounds accumulate, there's very real danger of even an Elder Bull dying in low-to-mid grade combat encounters. They can one-shot some weak things, but just can't take many big hits.

Their charge/mass is pretty darn impressive and fun, though. :)

I don't think anyone has modded in actual "armor" for them as I think they're not capable of benefiting from it. Graphically, sure. Stat-wise? Not that I can remember seeing, at least.

Verdict - Fun, but not very effective.

PS: There is/are some Animal Training mod(s) that allow the player to buy/tame more impressive combat and pack beasts than vanilla Kenshi has. (Beak Things, etc.) You may really want that for a themed playthrough.

Added: Bulls are better than Garu. Bonedogs are "OK" but still suffer from the same "animal" issues for damage mitigation and don't hit as hard. (Faster, though,IIRC, and players using them typically buy a bunch of them and run them in packs.) Goats? Too fragile.

[Christine Wurmblut]

Originally posted by Morkonan:

Originally posted by Christine Wurmblut:

...Any tips? Any experiences?..

You won't be doing much with them until they level up to Elder. Their stats are capped per age-range.

Even then, they have no way to mitigate damage. (No armor)

Elder Bulls against Starving Bandits is just plan... hilarious. Against Dust-Bandits and those types, it can still be kind of funny. But, as wounds accumulate, there's very real danger of even an Elder Bull dying in low-to-mid grade combat encounters. They can one-shot some weak things, but just can't take many big hits.

Their charge/mass is pretty darn impressive and fun, though. :)

I don't think anyone has modded in actual "armor" for them as I think they're not capable of benefiting from it. Graphically, sure. Stat-wise? Not that I can remember seeing, at least.

Verdict - Fun, but not very effective.

PS: There is/are some Animal Training mod(s) that allow the player to buy/tame more impressive combat and pack beasts than vanilla Kenshi has. (Beak Things, etc.) You may really want that for a themed playthrough.

Added: Bulls are better than Garu. Bonedogs are "OK" but still suffer from the same "animal" issues for damage mitigation and don't hit as hard. (Faster, though,IIRC, and players using them typically buy a bunch of them and run them in packs.) Goats? Too fragile.

I actually had that animal taming mod enabled on my first playtrough. I actually had a beak thing. As soon as it hit elder though it got incredibly overpowered. Apart from that it was barely able to traverse trough anything but flat terrain.

The Genesis Modpack added Cage Beasts. While they look really cool they die even faster than the bull.
I just want some animal with a big backpack that can keep up with the strike team and defend itself without beeing broken.

[Draa]

Bulls, like most animals, are best used in combat when in a pack. A single bull isn't much of a threat but add a few more and that changes.

Bulls should be kept out of harms way until they reach late-adult to elder stage. Training strength is ok but putting one into combat too early can cost you an animal. It's better to wait until they're grown if possible.

Put your best armored and stated characters on "Taunt" to draw the enemy's attention and allow your bull(s) to go on the attack. The enemy will focus on the taunting characters and mostly leave the bull(s) alone.

Assign a high level character (or two) to "bodyguard" your bull(s). That way if/when combat starts you have help to defend the bull(s) if needed.

Put a backpack on the bull(s), fill it with iron ore and assign them to bodyguard a character hauling something. They'll train strength while following the character. Add food and they won't starve.

There's a mod on the workshop that helps with the path finding of animals. I'd suggest getting that mod if you're going to use animals. It will save a lot of headaches.

[lizardmang]

Originally posted by Christine Wurmblut:

Alright so I guess I only have the weak version. I actually bought him at a HN farm. Do Nomads sell non-domesticated bulls? Because mine really does stop at 14mph.

So if I get a good one and he gets beaten up, eventually his toughness will make him at least a semi tank?

You unfortunately bought a bull from the one place that has the slower, weaker variant. Nomads sell pack bulls and wild bulls, both of which max out at 31 and have their horns, dealing additional blunt damage and far more cutting damage than domesticated bulls with their trimmed horns.

Their toughness will level like a humanoid character's would, but their inability to block attacks or even mitigate damage with armor still leaves them without much tanking ability at all. They also deal pretty mediocre damage compared to that which a humanoid can potentially deal - their hidden "weapon" used to calculate damage is slightly randomized and similar to that of a lower-mid-quality hacker class weapon.

They can hold their own when aided by humanoid fighters, especially for an animal meant to primarily carry things, but they'll generally accumulate damage far quicker than a humanoid will, and they aren't particularly powerful.

[bunny de fluff]

I would Always have at least one animal to utilize all the foul meat. Two goats or dogs are good. They stagger people rapidly.

[Morkonan]

Originally posted by Christine Wurmblut:

I actually had that animal taming mod enabled on my first playtrough. I actually had a beak thing. As soon as it hit elder though it got incredibly overpowered. Apart from that it was barely able to traverse trough anything but flat terrain.

Using the terrain is great for surviving against Beak Things. They can't negotiate certain obstacles/narrow areas.

I just want some animal with a big backpack that can keep up with the strike team and defend itself without beeing broken.

There's an animal "Backpack Mod." Several, actually. I use one for Bonedogs to simplify feeding them without a Feeding Trough. It's pretty handy and nearly a "must have" for those who want Bonedogs, but don't have a Base. Other stand-alone backpack mods exist for other vanilla animals. IIRC, there's also one that has a complete set for all vanilla animals, in case a mod enables them.

The one I use just for Bonedogs:

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=853705461

[Mr. Mannperson]

Originally posted by TaichungCanuck:

If you're training one from a pup, be aware that if your group is defeated in battle, your enemies (damn you, Dust Bandits!) might butcher him for meat.

RIP my lil bone puppy because a starver decided to cut him open :( and people say you should take pity on starvers. Know that they'd tear a puppy open and eat it!

[Cattrina]

You can also try my Sage Steeds mod, if you want a fighter bull. They get weapons :)