Armor Difference

[RasaNova]

I'm trying to understand the differences in armor types...

A standard grade leather turtleneck has 8% vs blunt, 16% vs cut, 50% cut efficiency.
A standard grade rusty chainmail has 6% vs blunt, 16% vs cut, 60% cut efficiency. It also weighs 5x as much and has terrible stat penalties - yet it's much harder to make and is worth significantly more.

Is there ANY reason to wear heavier armor with penalties if lighter armor without penalties has better numbers? Are there other hidden effects from wearing light/medium/heavy armor types?

[Germania516]

If you do get high strength you can wear all plate and just take a beating without getting hurt bad so I would wear light armour till your strength is at least 50 than switch to plate.

It really depends on what you are fighting,and the situation. I have a few tanks in all heavy,crossbowers in all light, MA in light,and my important medic in medium so it can run if the battle gets wiped,and be alive to heal the fallen tribe.

[cyan13]

Only one I can think of is better harpoon resistance for heavy armor.

[RasaNova]

Originally posted by Germania516:

If you do get high strength you can wear all plate and just take a beating without getting hurt bad so I would wear light armour till your strength is at least 50 than switch to plate.

It really depends on what you are fighting,and the situation. I have a few tanks in all heavy,crossbowers in all light, MA in light,and my important medic in medium so it can run if the battle gets wiped,and be alive to heal the fallen tribe.

I guess the question is, why wear heavy armor at all if lighter armor gives the same or better stats? I feel like I'm missing something.

[Germania516]

Originally posted by RasaNova:

Originally posted by Germania516:

If you do get high strength you can wear all plate and just take a beating without getting hurt bad so I would wear light armour till your strength is at least 50 than switch to plate.

It really depends on what you are fighting,and the situation. I have a few tanks in all heavy,crossbowers in all light, MA in light,and my important medic in medium so it can run if the battle gets wiped,and be alive to heal the fallen tribe.

I guess the question is, why wear heavy armor at all if lighter armor gives the same or better stats? I feel like I'm missing something.

If you are going to fight something like a security spider and you are wearing light armour prepare to get your arm cut off because spiders use slashing damage. If you wear plate armour you will take the slashing damage because plate armour is great against slashing

If you are going to fight a group of light wearing armoured bandits than you will be better in light armour because you will just block off their attacks or dodge because light armour doesn't keep you immobilized.

So if you are fighting non metal NPCS or hard NPCS that can cause you to bleed to death than wear light or medium but for harsh bosses go all plate.

Worry about plate armour when you are doing a hard raid in labs or temples and light when you are in the world traveling.

Also assign different roles to your tribe,and have one or two tanks that are strong enough to wear plate,and have the damage dealers in all light. As long as the tank is taunting you won't get hit hard as a light armour wearer. If you decide to have crossbowers you will never need plate because you will have high run speed for kiting,and you are faraway in a battle.

Remember this if it makes you bleed out than wear plate,and if it doesn't make you bleed out or is easy to kill than wear light.

Nothing worse than getting hit in the head by a skeleton and bleeding to death,and if only you had your samurai helmet on you would still be alive.

[RasaNova]

Originally posted by Germania516:

Originally posted by RasaNova:

I guess the question is, why wear heavy armor at all if lighter armor gives the same or better stats? I feel like I'm missing something.

If you are going to fight something like a security spider and you are wearing light armour prepare to get your arm cut off because spiders use slashing damage. If you wear plate armour you will take the slashing damage because plate armour is great against slashing

If you are going to fight a group of light wearing armoured bandits than you will be better in light armour because you will just block off their attacks or dodge because light armour doesn't keep you immobilized.

So if you are fighting non metal NPCS or hard NPCS that can cause you to bleed to death than wear light or medium but for harsh bosses go all plate.

Worry about plate armour when you are doing a hard raid in labs or temples and light when you are in the world traveling.

Also assign different roles to your tribe,and have one or two tanks that are strong enough to wear plate,and have the damage dealers in all light. As long as the tank is taunting you won't get hit hard as a light armour wearer. If you decide to have crossbowers you will never need plate because you will have high run speed for kiting,and you are faraway in a battle.

Remember this if it makes you bleed out than wear plate,and if it doesn't make you bleed out or is easy to kill than wear light.

Nothing worse than getting hit in the head by a skeleton and bleeding to death,and if only you had your samurai helmet on you would still be alive.

Ok - maybe I'm being dense but I am still not understanding what the difference is between light and heavy when light sometimes appears to heave similar or better stats. Would I want to wear heavy armor with 30% cut resistance if I had light armor available with 40% cut resistance?

Then there's "Cut resistance Efficiency" which to be fair IS higher with heavy plate armors, but sometimes not by much. If armor values were equal between light and heavy, but the light had 60% cut resistance efficiency and the heavy had say 70%, would it be worth taking a list of stat penalties for that slight increase?

[Germania516]

Originally posted by RasaNova:

Originally posted by Germania516:

If you are going to fight something like a security spider and you are wearing light armour prepare to get your arm cut off because spiders use slashing damage. If you wear plate armour you will take the slashing damage because plate armour is great against slashing

If you are going to fight a group of light wearing armoured bandits than you will be better in light armour because you will just block off their attacks or dodge because light armour doesn't keep you immobilized.

So if you are fighting non metal NPCS or hard NPCS that can cause you to bleed to death than wear light or medium but for harsh bosses go all plate.

Worry about plate armour when you are doing a hard raid in labs or temples and light when you are in the world traveling.

Also assign different roles to your tribe,and have one or two tanks that are strong enough to wear plate,and have the damage dealers in all light. As long as the tank is taunting you won't get hit hard as a light armour wearer. If you decide to have crossbowers you will never need plate because you will have high run speed for kiting,and you are faraway in a battle.

Remember this if it makes you bleed out than wear plate,and if it doesn't make you bleed out or is easy to kill than wear light.

Nothing worse than getting hit in the head by a skeleton and bleeding to death,and if only you had your samurai helmet on you would still be alive.

Ok - maybe I'm being dense but I am still not understanding what the difference is between light and heavy when light sometimes appears to heave similar or better stats. Would I want to wear heavy armor with 30% cut resistance if I had light armor available with 40% cut resistance?

Then there's "Cut resistance Efficiency" which to be fair IS higher with heavy plate armors, but sometimes not by much. If armor values were equal between light and heavy, but the light had 60% cut resistance efficiency and the heavy had say 70%, would it be worth taking a list of stat penalties for that slight increase?

Ok mate let's look at it this way,plate is effected hard by blunt weapons,and cloth is effected hard by slash weapons. Imagine two knights fighting,and they both are using 2 handed swords,and are slashing at eachother but not really doing alot of damage so the fight is like a pillow fight until the one knight pulls out a blunted mace and now he has the advantage because now he is bashing through the plate while the sword user is not even scratching the plate.

Imagine two ninjas fighting and they both are using slashing weapons,and cutting themselves up at the beginning of the fight until one of the ninjas takes out a blunt weapon,and that was the biggest mistake which resulted in him dead.

It's all about material and what the armour is made of to determine what you are going to be wearing during a fight.

So let's go by what the armour is made of. Medium is a balance between the both,you take a beating and you are more faster than a plate wearer.

[Morkonan]

Originally posted by RasaNova:

...
I guess the question is, why wear heavy armor at all if lighter armor gives the same or better stats? I feel like I'm missing something.

But, in few cases does Light Armor give the same or better stats...

https://kenshi.fandom.com/wiki/Dustcoat

The Dustcoat is arguably one of the best, most "feature rich" bits of Light Armor in the Game.

https://kenshi.fandom.com/wiki/White_Plate_Jacket

The White Plate Jacket is probably the best Medium Armor in the game.

https://kenshi.fandom.com/wiki/Samurai_Armour

Samurai armor is the best craftable Heavy Armor in the game.

Where are you seeing "gives the same or better stats" between these? Same or better for ... what?

Keep note that a few percentage points here and there may not matter, but in initial Mitigation, that first part of the damage formula where your Armor defense says "No" to the raw incoming damage, that effect is... huge as it is multiplied down the chain of armors you're wearing over that particular body part. Everything gets a shot at mitigating it and the lower that initial incoming damage is, the more compounded its effect down the line.

A Heavy Armor Tank isn't going to be Assassinating someone, won't be using a Crossbow, doesn't care about Stealth or Martial Arts. For the rest, they're a Tank and have been bashing in skulls since Day 1 and have a lot of "armor and a big friggin' sword..." A few skill points, here and there, in what they specialize in, which is bashing heads and taking tons of damage, won't mean a thing to them.

EARLY in the game, though, those hits are very significant. Even so, if you want "survivability" going with the best you can get is not a bad idea at all. If you fail at DPS with all that on, then keep some Characters in lighter gear and turn on Taunt for your meatbags in the heavy stuff.

PS - I think the Wiki has some old data, perhaps? Can anyone confirm? Some of those numbers don't look right to me.

PPS - A Leather Turtleneck is arguably the best shirt for every single type of character, baring Hivers. The exception would be end-game heavy tank nastybros that need top-notch damage mitigation and have the Stats to back up wearing something like Chainmail. (Chainmail shirts are a waste unless that's all you have. Too little critical coverage.)

[RasaNova]

Originally posted by Germania516:

Originally posted by RasaNova:

Ok - maybe I'm being dense but I am still not understanding what the difference is between light and heavy when light sometimes appears to heave similar or better stats. Would I want to wear heavy armor with 30% cut resistance if I had light armor available with 40% cut resistance?

Then there's "Cut resistance Efficiency" which to be fair IS higher with heavy plate armors, but sometimes not by much. If armor values were equal between light and heavy, but the light had 60% cut resistance efficiency and the heavy had say 70%, would it be worth taking a list of stat penalties for that slight increase?

Ok mate let's look at it this way,plate is effected hard by blunt weapons,and cloth is effected hard by slash weapons. Imagine two knights fighting,and they both are using 2 handed swords,and are slashing at eachother but not really doing alot of damage so the fight is like a pillow fight until the one knight pulls out a blunted mace and now he has the advantage because now he is bashing through the plate while the sword user is not even scratching the plate.

Imagine two ninjas fighting and they both are using slashing weapons,and cutting themselves up at the beginning of the fight until one of the ninjas takes out a blunt weapon,and that was the biggest mistake which resulted in him dead.

It's all about material and what the armour is made of to determine what you are going to be wearing during a fight.

So let's go by what the armour is made of. Medium is a balance between the both,you take a beating and you are more faster than a plate wearer.

I get that much...

But say, just for example: You have two helmets. Both have the EXACT same stats - same coverage, resistance, etc but one is light and one is heavy. It sounds like you are saying the heavy one has better protection vs cutting. But how? If the stats are the same, why would heavy plate be better? On top of that, if the heavy one added penalties to melee defence, speed, etc why would I ever NOT wear the light armor?

That is what I don't see. Is there some intrinsic benefit to cloth, chain, leather, plate other than the raw numbers? If so, what? And if not, then why is heavy armor SO much more valuable and geared more towards later in the game.

[Morkonan]

Originally posted by RasaNova:

...But say, just for example: You have two helmets. Both have the EXACT same stats - same coverage, resistance, etc but one is light and one is heavy. It sounds like you are saying the heavy one has better protection vs cutting. But how? If the stats are the same, why would heavy plate be better? On top of that, if the heavy one added penalties to melee defence, speed, etc why would I ever NOT wear the light armor?

Which helmets are these?

That is what I don't see. Is there some intrinsic benefit to cloth, chain, leather, plate other than the raw numbers? If so, what? And if not, then why is heavy armor SO much more valuable and geared more towards later in the game.

What specific bits and pieces are you talking about?

[Germania516]

Heavy armour is for a tank that is there to take a beating,and to taunt and prevent the light wearers from getting the aggro. Imagine you are just a standing still beast taking the hits so your light wearers can put out massive damage from the back.

Light wearers are usually ninjas/assassins/crossbowers that get behind,are faraway or just want to clear the easy npcs to get to the big bosses. For example if you are fighting 20 dust bandits,and 7 are crossbowers you will want to send your light wearers to rush the crossbowers to take them out fast,and once they are dead you just have to worry about assisting the tanks on the melees.

If you are going to steal and rob a town at night than you want to be in the most fastest gear with tons of dexterity and the best stealth bonuses. If you are going to be an assassin you want all the bonuses you can get to add to a successful kill and get away.

If you are a crossbower you don't need plate or even boots {sandles are the best because they have athletic bonus for kiting}.

So what you wear from light to heavy depends on the role you want to play,and it isn't always about battle or fighting you can even just be a thief your whole adventure.

So when you make a character give it a role,and you will automatically know what to wear. So if you are a ninja you will not care about plate but if you are a heavy HPS Shek,and you are the frontline king you will be wearing plate.

Now if you are going to duo with a mate than just both wear medium {it depends on the mob also,and how hard it is. If you are going to run into a gang of dust bandits on the way to Squin you will just need to be in light armour to just clear the trash.

Remember this there is trash and there are bosses. Just study the NPC and see how hard it hits,and if it is easy than there will be no need for plate,and if it is a pain in the arse than wear plate but also don't have everyone in plate if you have a few good tanks that can taunt.

Give everyone a permanent role,and assign them to wearing one type of armour. If you go to the temples to raid for loot have tanks,have MA,have a few crossbowers. Just break down what every class is and does.

Crossbower has no need for plate.

MA assist ninja/assassin/light tanks has no need for plate.

Tank needs plate.

Unless you change a ninja to a tank than forget plate on your ninja.

[RasaNova]

Originally posted by Morkonan:

Originally posted by RasaNova:

...
I guess the question is, why wear heavy armor at all if lighter armor gives the same or better stats? I feel like I'm missing something.

But, in few cases does Light Armor give the same or better stats...

https://kenshi.fandom.com/wiki/Dustcoat

The Dustcoat is arguably one of the best, most "feature rich" bits of Light Armor in the Game.

https://kenshi.fandom.com/wiki/White_Plate_Jacket

The White Plate Jacket is probably the best Medium Armor in the game.

https://kenshi.fandom.com/wiki/Samurai_Armour

Samurai armor is the best craftable Heavy Armor in the game.

Where are you seeing "gives the same or better stats" between these? Same or better for ... what?

Keep note that a few percentage points here and there may not matter, but in initial Mitigation, that first part of the damage formula where your Armor defense says "No" to the raw incoming damage, that effect is... huge as it is multiplied down the chain of armors you're wearing over that particular body part. Everything gets a shot at mitigating it and the lower that initial incoming damage is, the more compounded its effect down the line.

A Heavy Armor Tank isn't going to be Assassinating someone, won't be using a Crossbow, doesn't care about Stealth or Martial Arts. For the rest, they're a Tank and have been bashing in skulls since Day 1 and have a lot of "armor and a big friggin' sword..." A few skill points, here and there, in what they specialize in, which is bashing heads and taking tons of damage, won't mean a thing to them.

EARLY in the game, though, those hits are very significant. Even so, if you want "survivability" going with the best you can get is not a bad idea at all. If you fail at DPS with all that on, then keep some Characters in lighter gear and turn on Taunt for your meatbags in the heavy stuff.

PS - I think the Wiki has some old data, perhaps? Can anyone confirm? Some of those numbers don't look right to me.

PPS - A Leather Turtleneck is arguably the best shirt for every single type of character, baring Hivers. The exception would be end-game heavy tank nastybros that need top-notch damage mitigation and have the Stats to back up wearing something like Chainmail. (Chainmail shirts are a waste unless that's all you have. Too little critical coverage.)

I wasn't necessarily comparing the BEST armor in each tier, more a general question. There are several examples where light armor will have higher stats than heavier. The thing that had me scratching my head in the 1st place was wondering whether or not to sell a piece of rusty chainmail for something like 2k cats, or use it with its long list of penalties when the leather shirt being worn had nearly identical stats. There are plenty of other examples where a light chest might have higher stats than a medium or heavy chest. Mercenary plate for example has terrible stats for being a heavy plate armor. But it is still heavy armor.

[Germania516]

Originally posted by RasaNova:

Originally posted by Germania516:

Ok mate let's look at it this way,plate is effected hard by blunt weapons,and cloth is effected hard by slash weapons. Imagine two knights fighting,and they both are using 2 handed swords,and are slashing at eachother but not really doing alot of damage so the fight is like a pillow fight until the one knight pulls out a blunted mace and now he has the advantage because now he is bashing through the plate while the sword user is not even scratching the plate.

Imagine two ninjas fighting and they both are using slashing weapons,and cutting themselves up at the beginning of the fight until one of the ninjas takes out a blunt weapon,and that was the biggest mistake which resulted in him dead.

It's all about material and what the armour is made of to determine what you are going to be wearing during a fight.

So let's go by what the armour is made of. Medium is a balance between the both,you take a beating and you are more faster than a plate wearer.

I get that much...

But say, just for example: You have two helmets. Both have the EXACT same stats - same coverage, resistance, etc but one is light and one is heavy. It sounds like you are saying the heavy one has better protection vs cutting. But how? If the stats are the same, why would heavy plate be better? On top of that, if the heavy one added penalties to melee defence, speed, etc why would I ever NOT wear the light armor?

That is what I don't see. Is there some intrinsic benefit to cloth, chain, leather, plate other than the raw numbers? If so, what? And if not, then why is heavy armor SO much more valuable and geared more towards later in the game.

So what classes are these helmets assigned to ? A tank sure is not going to wear a masked helmet that is medium because he will need the samurai one unless he wants his heads bashed in. The ninja is not going to wear a samurai helmet because he needs to be fast,he needs the bonuses.

Also what if this tank is traveling and he runs into acid rain ? Is that samurai helmet going to help him much ? I am sure his head will be burned to death.

[RasaNova]

Originally posted by Morkonan:

Originally posted by RasaNova:

...But say, just for example: You have two helmets. Both have the EXACT same stats - same coverage, resistance, etc but one is light and one is heavy. It sounds like you are saying the heavy one has better protection vs cutting. But how? If the stats are the same, why would heavy plate be better? On top of that, if the heavy one added penalties to melee defence, speed, etc why would I ever NOT wear the light armor?

Which helmets are these?

That is what I don't see. Is there some intrinsic benefit to cloth, chain, leather, plate other than the raw numbers? If so, what? And if not, then why is heavy armor SO much more valuable and geared more towards later in the game.

What specific bits and pieces are you talking about?

Those were just numbers pulled out of thin air because I didn't have anything specific to use as an example. But there are definitely cases where heavy has lower stats than light, with huge penalties, and so if that heavy armor has other hidden advantages due to being heavy, that's what I'm trying to figure out.

If the effectiveness is purely based on the numbers and not whether it's light/medium/heavy, then that answers my question.

[Germania516]

Originally posted by RasaNova:

Originally posted by Morkonan:

But, in few cases does Light Armor give the same or better stats...

https://kenshi.fandom.com/wiki/Dustcoat

The Dustcoat is arguably one of the best, most "feature rich" bits of Light Armor in the Game.

https://kenshi.fandom.com/wiki/White_Plate_Jacket

The White Plate Jacket is probably the best Medium Armor in the game.

https://kenshi.fandom.com/wiki/Samurai_Armour

Samurai armor is the best craftable Heavy Armor in the game.

Where are you seeing "gives the same or better stats" between these? Same or better for ... what?

Keep note that a few percentage points here and there may not matter, but in initial Mitigation, that first part of the damage formula where your Armor defense says "No" to the raw incoming damage, that effect is... huge as it is multiplied down the chain of armors you're wearing over that particular body part. Everything gets a shot at mitigating it and the lower that initial incoming damage is, the more compounded its effect down the line.

A Heavy Armor Tank isn't going to be Assassinating someone, won't be using a Crossbow, doesn't care about Stealth or Martial Arts. For the rest, they're a Tank and have been bashing in skulls since Day 1 and have a lot of "armor and a big friggin' sword..." A few skill points, here and there, in what they specialize in, which is bashing heads and taking tons of damage, won't mean a thing to them.

EARLY in the game, though, those hits are very significant. Even so, if you want "survivability" going with the best you can get is not a bad idea at all. If you fail at DPS with all that on, then keep some Characters in lighter gear and turn on Taunt for your meatbags in the heavy stuff.

PS - I think the Wiki has some old data, perhaps? Can anyone confirm? Some of those numbers don't look right to me.

PPS - A Leather Turtleneck is arguably the best shirt for every single type of character, baring Hivers. The exception would be end-game heavy tank nastybros that need top-notch damage mitigation and have the Stats to back up wearing something like Chainmail. (Chainmail shirts are a waste unless that's all you have. Too little critical coverage.)

I wasn't necessarily comparing the BEST armor in each tier, more a general question. There are several examples where light armor will have higher stats than heavier. The thing that had me scratching my head in the 1st place was wondering whether or not to sell a piece of rusty chainmail for something like 2k cats, or use it with its long list of penalties when the leather shirt being worn had nearly identical stats. There are plenty of other examples where a light chest might have higher stats than a medium or heavy chest. Mercenary plate for example has terrible stats for being a heavy plate armor. But it is still heavy armor.

For my underarmour I only wear a Leather turtleneck or a darkened chain mail because there are hardly any penalties,and they hold up great.

Those two are the best chainmail on this game.

Yes some armour is better than others. For example the ninjas rags and the dustcoat are two if the best light armours.

The samurai is the best set for tanks.

Medium is platecoat due to it's superiour covering. Mind my english,I am Swedish lol

Look at how much the armour covers your body. So say a Bp has 100% coverage in all compared to a BP that has great resistance but decent coverage. I would go with the 100% coverage to prevent even getting hit much in the first place.

[Germania516]

Originally posted by RasaNova:

Originally posted by Morkonan:

Which helmets are these?



What specific bits and pieces are you talking about?

Those were just numbers pulled out of thin air because I didn't have anything specific to use as an example. But there are definitely cases where heavy has lower stats than light, with huge penalties, and so if that heavy armor has other hidden advantages due to being heavy, that's what I'm trying to figure out.

If the effectiveness is purely based on the numbers and not whether it's light/medium/heavy, then that answers my question.

Ok this is the best explanation. A tank has to stand in the middle of massive NPCS swinging at him from all directions so he needs heavy armour to take that extra beating,and it doesn't matter if he is fast or not he just wants to take those blows while the rest of his army are in the back shooting and stabbing or puncturing mitigation so those light wearers can hit harder and the fight will be over faster. If the tank dies your army dies unless they can runaway,and that is wear light armour comes in :D

Yes the fact you have massive toughness on your plate means thee needs to be a penalty or else that tank would be unkillable and overpowered. Can you imagine a tank that doesn't get hit hard plus can block,dodge and have superior athletic speed ? Wouldn't that be your dream class ? lol