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infantry- i should say the same but if i need to choose ill go with dustcoats + samurai clothpants,leather shirt and polearms/desert sabres
Range - rattan hat or any hat that don't give malus to perception,full drifters armors,leather shirt with ranger/old bow mk2
MA/Ninja same armors but ninja with a katana and a leather shirt, assasin rags or the other one +martial art bindings samurai clothpants
I usually go full heavy armor/best looking outfit to everyone and a weapon of choice i like polearms and desert sabres (vanilla)
AFAIK heavy armor doesn't significantly impede Str-based weaponry (pretty much heavy weapons that do a lot of blunt damage), so putting your troops in masterwork Crab armor + samurai legplates + crab helmets + plated longboots (or sandals for extra speed) is pretty much a given. At masterwork level, leather turtlenecks are probably as good as blackened chain because Crab Armor negates 9/10ths of cut damage to begin with, while blunt resistance on these two is virtually the same but turtleneck doesn't have minor debuffs to dex and combat speed.
I suppose an argument can be made for Samurai armor instead of Crab because it doesn't debuff Dex, but it straight up nerfs damage by 15% instead, is almost twice worse at blocking Cut damage, and its worse coverage necessitates use of blackened chain underneath which adds more debuffs. So I go with Crab.
Overall, going with a full set like that makes your chars take like 5x less damage, and they'll kill enemies maybe a tiny bit slower but who cares. Plus you won't need to micro them as much because you have no glass cannons, and xbow friendly fire is hardly a problem with Crab armor having 102 Harpoon resist.
As for weapons, I'd say no point not having the longest weapon you can get, especially if you have several chars and they can have overlapping AoE. So heavy weapons or polearms pretty much.
As for ranged chars, basically whatever leather gear you think is best. It's probably better to go with light armor that gives xbow skill bonuses, since xbow chars shouldn't take damage in the first place. Sandals are probably better than armored boots so they can run. There is a problem with headgear where most of the light headgear only gives 70% coverage, meaning there is a decent chance of dying to an unlucky bolt to the head. For this reason, Paladin's Heavy Hachigane is worth a look, 90% coverage on a heavy helmet with no shooting debuffs.
Finally, please note that this is all strictly from a powergaming perspective. Of course, building melee chars in medium or light armor is perfectly viable, just requires more micro and possibly occasional savescumming.
And yeah... This was all about endgame builds. Negatives of heavy armor generally outweigh the positives until High or Specialist grades, and heavy weapons are a bad idea for chars without the skills to lift them. Polearms are great early on, tho.
Combined Arms groups are better if you aren't keeping your army together. 2 Ranged, 2 Lancers, 1-2 Duelists (Melee def blockers) 1-2 Heavies (Heavy Armor and either hackers or Heavy weapon)
If you're keeping your group together as one roaming party, then the previous poster's advice is better.
In smaller groups, having multiple kinds of weapons present an advantage in that most will stagger attacks around to stun-lock a larger ratio of the enemy. In a large group, you're basically just steamrolling. Running from a battle won't be an option without ditching your armor, or if you got really meta and amputated legs to create all scout leg users.
In my opinion, the most universally superior weapon is not something like a Fragment Axe, but the Heavy Polearm. It has competitive damage with the Plank, Much higher attack speed, and a massive armor penetration bonus. It also has no weakness in combat, and a bonus to damage against animals. The Long Polearm (Just called Polearm) has much better reach, but less overall damage. It makes it a good crowd control weapon though.
Other specialized weapons like Hackers, Katana or Sabers have their purpose, but if we're talking some General Issue equip, Heavy Polearm is just too good.
of course, one could argue there's two phases to the game.
Phase one is "Adventurer" mode, which, benefits the smaller party size, after you explore the whole map, most people will then opt to fight one of the superpowers, which typically does require a more uniform army approach.
Or, you could do OBJECTIVELY THE BEST STRATEGY and play a Beastmaster. 29 Elder Bonedogs is unstoppable by everything. You can grind a Leviathan or Cleaner down in literally 3 seconds. They can attack up to 3 times per second, for 200 damage a bite, have more health than a Skeleton, and every limb they eat adds 1pt to a random attribute.
Cool i didn't know eating limbs gives point,i'm gonna try it :)
Check my math so to speak. This is just based on eyeballing, but I could have just happened to catch attributes tick up for other reasons and associated it with the dog eating a limb in the last few seconds.
my current group has 3 tanky melees and 3 crossbow guys.
the crossbow guys can wear assassin rags or ninja rags and double as thief / stealth assassin without having to swap gear.
tanks use heavy armor and long cleavers or (heavy) polearms as general purpose weapons. cleavers have higher strength requirement but are overall better.
if i continue that playthrough, the tanks might be swichted to heavy weapons if they reach high enough strength to use them comfortably (will probably stick with long cleavers).
if i found an outpost and add more people, they'll be geared up as rank and file troops and i probably won't bother micromanaging their training. i guess they can whack dummies and use the turret training station to get somewhat competent at swinging a weapon and shooting and then they'll just get a mass produced toothpick and katana or a polearm and some leather clothes (full drifter outfit or similar).
Agreed with most things you said, high five. Some nitpicking: Polearm and Heavy Polearm do pretty much the same total damage with the same bonuses (if we look at homemade Edge 2, its 0.63 Cut /0.60 Blunt for Polearm vs 0.79/0.45 for Heavy Polearm), but HP puts more damage into Cut, which is worse lategame and also debuffed by Dex-reducing heavy armors. Plus as you mentioned regular Polearm is longer, which is huge. The only advantage of HP is better bonus indoors but most fighting happens outdoors (where Polearm has higher bonus), plus when all your chars have high attack the minor attack maluses stop being such a big deal.
As for BeastMaster, I haven't tried it, but ofc it would depends of if we have the animal mods. Even in vanilla, AFAIK Crabs are superior fighters (albeit to slow to be of serious use while exploring, pretty much base defense only). With animal mods, why not 29 Elder Beak Things?
Infantry:
Masterwork Paladin's Heavy Hachigane: Blunt 66%, Cut 81%, Cut Eff 65%, Harpoon 85pts
Mw Blackened Chainmail: B 22%, C 48%, E 60%, H 31pts
Mw Unholy Armour: B 53%, C 81%, E 95%, H 85pts
Mw Samurai Legplates: B 61%, C 81%, E 90%, H 85pts
Mw Samurai Boots: B 61%, C 81%, H 85pts
Ranged:
Mw Ashland Hat: Perception +4, B 3%, C 17%, E 50%, H 5pts
Mw Leather Turtleneck: B 21%, C 33%, E 50%, H 16pts
Mw Drifter's Leather Jacket: Crossbows 1.10x, Melee Defence +4, B 33%, C 44%, Cet eff 70%, H 35pts
Mw Plated Drifter's Leather Pants: B 44%, C 55%, E 80%, H 57pts
Mw Plated Longboots: B 45%, C 66%, E 80%, H 76pts
Scout:
Mw Ashland Hat: Perception +4, B 3%, C 17%, E 50%, H 5pts
Mw Chainmail: B 20%, C 44%, E 70%, H 28pts
Mw White Plate Jacket: B 34%, C 58%, E 70%, H 33pts
Mw Cargopants (Sneaky Chain): B 19%, C 49%, E 60%, H 57pts
Wooden Sandals: Athletics 1.10x
Base Police:
Mw Police Helmet: B 60%, C 73%, E 70%, H 85pts
Mw Blackened Chainmail: B 22%, C 48%, E 60%, H 31pts
Mw Black Plate Jacket: B 34%, C 58%, E 70%, H 33pts
Mw Plated Drifter's Leather Pants: B 44%, C 55%, E 80%, H 57pts
Mw Plated Longboots: B 45%, C 66%, E 80%, H 76pts
Ninjas:
Mw Ninja Mask: B 35%, C 8%, E 80% Mw Dark Leather Shirt: Stealth 1.10x, B 22%, C 35%, E 50% Hs 17pts
Mw Ninja Rags: Stealth 1.30x, Crossbows 1.1x, Assassin 1.10x, Dodge 1.20x, Dex 1.10x, Martial Arts +4, B 26%, C 41%, E 50%, H 33pts
Mw Samurai Clothpants: B 26%, C 41%, E 50%, H 33pts
Wooden Sandals: Athletics 1.10x, Combat Speed 1.10x
Martial Artist:
Mw Kusari Zukin: B 25%, C 55%, E 60% H 57%
Martial Artist Bindings: +4 Martial Arts, Fist 70%, Damage 1.05x
Mw Sleeveless Longcoat: 1.10x Dodge, 1.05x Damage, +4 Martial Arts, B 26%, C 41%, E 60%, H 33pts
Wooden Sandals: Athletics 1.10x, Combat Speed 1.10x
The legs I swap around depending on conditions
Mw Armoured Rag Skirt: +2 Martial Arts, B 54%, C 76%, E 90%
Mw Samurai Legplates: -10 Martial Arts, B 61%, C 81%, E 90%, H 85pts
Gi Pants: +2 Martial Arts.
Strength based melee attackers:
Samurai Helmet (only -4 melee attack and I just can't stand the visuals of the police helmet)
Black Plate Jacket (highest protection with the least combat malus)
Leather Turtleneck (best protection without any combat malus)
Plated Drifter's Leather Pants (could also be Samurai Clothpants but I like these more for their visuals and I don't value dodge that much)
Samurai Boots (no combat negatives on Masterwork)
Dexterity based melee attackers:
Samurai Helmet
Assassin's Rags (hands down the best offensive chest piece)
Leather Turtleneck
Plated Drifter's Leather Pants
Samurai Boots
Martial artist:
Face Mask (Samurai Helmet gives a malus to martial arts and I just don't like the look of the police helmet)
Assassin's Rags
Leather Turtleneck
Samurai Clothpants (no dodge malus)
Plated Longboots (no dodge/MA malus)
Crossbow users:
Straw Hat (+6 Perception)
Assassin's Rags (ranged characters should never get hit, so no need for any defence)
Leather Turtleneck
Samurai Clothpants
No boots because all my ranged characters are either Hive Princes or Robots
Disagree with the list. This looks like someone just going off an Excel spreadsheet that didn't take coverage in account. A lot of listed armor has bad coverage and hence is quite bad. For example, Heavy Hanchigane has 90% coverage, meaning every 10th head hit will be completely unmitigated, and it has vastly inferior stats to the Crab Helmet overall. Crab helmet only debuffs crossbows, so for every non-ranged fighter its a no-brainer. Samurai shoes give like half the coverage of plated longboots, unholy chestplate doesn't protect the arms unlike other heavy armor, etc.
In addition, I think the list vastly overvalues equipment bonuses. By lategame (when your crew could be rolling in full MW gear), even -10 Atk isn't such a bit deal IMO. What IS a big deal is mitigating damage to like 1/5th of what your chars could be taking, and ensuring full coverage with armor so an unlucky hit from an endgame enemy doesn't oneshot your chars. Hence, focus on coverage and damage mitigation, at least for the outer layer (as I mentioned above, at Masterwork level chainmail becomes worse than leather because MW outer armor pretty much negates cut damage before it even gets to chainmail).
It's meta ). Its probably objectively the best heavy weapon, and the best weapon ingame. Kinda hard to get tho, and not very long. I tend to use frag axes and polearms instead, but that's just because I can get them way earlier and I tend to deal with super tough individual enemies using mass crossbows, while trash like cannibals can be reaped using pretty much any long weapon.
^-- This. I was just about to post that comment, myself.
Most of these sorts of Armor lists we see end up trying to vindicate themselves with Stats that are decidedly very, very, "late game" or, more likely, "if ever game." At last in vanilla play.
I should have copied my own setup the last time I took the trouble writing it all out... I thought about it, but was lazy and just hit the "Post Comment" button not realizing how often people make these threads... :)
@OP:
Pretty much "anything goes" if you have the characters to support it. There's a lot of leeway in Kenshi for specializing characters. Just remember that in Kenshi a character that is specialized for something will undoubtedly, and surely, get wrecked when they reach outside of their "specialty." Kenshi lets you plan and play as you wish, but will punish bad decisions. :)
In general for basic gear by a sort of "class" system, and off the top of my head:
Tanks
Samurai Armor
Samurai Legplates
Plated Boots
Masked Helmet
Leather Turtleneck
Weapon: Here is where you have to decide if the character needs more Defense, thus requiring maybe a Sabre, or you want them with a bit more DPS options, like a Planck or a Polearm or even a Hacker. I have a few "Pure Taunt Tanks" I can use in a pinch armed with very good Sabres. Making sure they end up with some decent Dexterity could be important, too, so opting for a bit of Cutting Damage weapons there isn't bad. In short - There aren't a lot of bad choices for their role as a primary "Tanky" type of character.
Melee DPS
White Plate Jacket
Samurai Cloth Pants
Plated Boots
Masked Helmet
Leather Turtleneck
Weapon: Hackers, a mix of Paladin's Cross and Long Cleavers with several with Polearms. Some few will still have Katanas here to mow down lightly armored humans quickly. I might have one or two, no more, with Heavy Weapons to keep skilling them up. BUT, I'm paying attention to them and their Strength, too. A Heavy Weapon you can't lift in the middle of combat due to Strength Reduction Injuries is no longer an efficient or effective heavy weapon and a comparable Hacker will outclass it every single time in that situation. Paladin's Cross is a good all-rounder, too, if you wish to choose that route.
Ranged DPS
Drifter's Leather Jacket
Samurai Cloth Pants
Plated Boots OR Wooden Sandals
Iron Hat
Leather Turtleneck
Weapon: A couple with Eagle's Cross, the rest with Oldworld Mk II and Rangers. Noobs always get Toothpicks until Precision is 60 and Crossbow is appreciable, but not necessarily 60 as well. Eagle's Cross absolutely must have top-notch Crossbow Skill.
Melee Weapon for Ranged DPS- Best Katana available, but preferably these won't be in melee with end-game-class mobs... The Wooden Sandals can help, here, allowing them to take a faster combat movement out of danger. Ranged DPS is squishy for a reason. However, while Primary DPS that specialize with Katanas get first pick of the best ones, Ranged DPS always gets the second pick before any other DPS for good Katanas/Wakizashis. When they need that DPS/Help, it has to be there.
Special Considerations:
Every darn thing is a "Special Consideration" and most combos can be argued in some specific situation. The above is "General." It doesn't include Crab Armor because I have no experience with it and it's not something you'll just run off and pick up somewhere on Day 2. You can buy all this stuff from a Merchant and even find most of it lying around on a corpse or on the ground. It doesn't include Unholy Armor because why the heck would I? :) Don't need it and if I did then I would already be very worried about coverage gaps, wouldn't I?
Hivers: Top Class Dustcoat, Masterwork preferred. Their limbs are just to squishy and they don't get some armor slots, so the extra coverage helps there even if they'd benefit from +crossbow, for instance if they were a ranged DPS. (Most of mine are, with only a few not set up for Ranged DPS.) If one is daring, Drifter's for ranged Hivers as long as you don't intend for them to work for a living.
Skeletons: Assasins garb/thing. Good coverage for slots they don't have. An argument could be made that it's not needed and they'd be better off with "real armor." I just don't like "unmitigated damage" anywhere on my list of things to worry about....
Secondary Weapons - Katanas or Wakizashis, whatever I feel like. A few even have Blunts because "why not." Keep in mind some main weapons do not have "Indoor" penalties and they'll use those when inside. For one-handed weapons if they get an arm disabled, why have you let them get their arm disabled and why, now, are you so worried about their secondary weapon? Sounds like a bad decision was already made so may as well not worry about the rest.. :) IOW - You wont' fail with Katanas, Wakizashis in your Secondary slot and even Blunts could have a use.
On helmets/boots/chainmail/etc - You have to first weigh your need against the character's ability to use the item and then their ability to fulfill the role you intend for them. The above is just an easy, working, basic setup. By and large, it's fine all the way as far as you want to go. You can, of course, switch out for Police Helmet or even Samurai late game or may want to put everyone in Wooden Sandals or not worry about Hivers since all of yours have Robotics. :) For my generic set, everyone has Fog Helmets, just in case. Later, I might switch to Police Helmets, but that depends on what I'm more often facing and the conditions I am more often in.
On Heavy Weapons: Planks are decent, Axes are too and even Falling Suns have their place. BUT, your character can't wield a weapon effectively if their Strength score falls below twice the value of the weight of the item. They can still swing it but at greatly reduced effectiveness at that point. You have to judge whether or not the character is likely to have that happen to them for the weapon they are using. End-game values mean you can't swing end-game Heavy Weapons at 100% efficiency without Robot Limbs and max stats. But, you can get just about the same value out of much lighter weapons that they won't suddenly be unable to use effectively halfway through combat.
Protection - You should have gear needed to protect everyone from Acid Rain and Fire IF needed. If you're going to Venge, bring the right gear. If you're always running around in The Border Lands wearing your Venge gear... WTF are you doing? :) Everyone should at least have a Dustcoat, Fog Mask, and appropriate Footwear and Helmet sitting in a chest somewhere, ready for use if not right at the moment.
On Modifiers: +Armor Penetration > ALL. Some weapons also have +Damage Against values that can really be meaningful, too. Pay attention tot these. In a Generic Loadout, you always want to have a good range of these +Damage Against modifiers and as much +Armor Penetration as you can get. Keep in mind, as well, Katanas are still useful for a couple of Characters, but your Ranged DPS will likely have them as Secondaries if you absolutely find yourself wanting a bunch of Katanas wailing on guys.