Hivers are lowkey OP?

[Lumin_Knight]

escaped from prison with a hiver worker on my team he was broken in evry limb an had like 15 toughness on first day, my human had like three he was ko'd early. Long story>short hiver quickly became an op defensive centrepiece for my team i think he gets extra block frames by the time my team was down he was still fighting the 5 same dust bandits

so i started a new hive only playthrough an i have a prince(exiled), 2 workers(tall skinny), 1 general(superbuff soldier), an 3 other soldiers
the idea is the workers use heavy armour an the small two handed sabre( i heard you can use it if your arm is broken) than hold a defensive line taunting a few into a pointless combat than i bum rush with soldiers they wield just crappy blunts but i aim for armoured, My "general" is just a massive soldier wielding the fragment axe to mash the small fry
im not sure about the prince though i was thinking crossbow an keep weapons light with katana but the negative defence :/

[Lumin_Knight]

Originally posted by Komrad:

Originally posted by Locklave:

This thread is mindless.

Hivers are still the worst race at combat, soldiers included. They are viable at least now in combat because of shirt armor slots.

Weakest but no longer a liability. Which is a fine place to be. Threads like this aren't helpful.

They're the fastest in combat, helps make up for the heavy armor combat speed penalty and if they lose a limb it can be replaced with a vastly superior prosthetic. They don't bleed out from injuries as quickly. And they eat less food which is always good for long marches in heavy armor. Hivers have always been as good as everyone else they just take more long term planning. Only issue is environmental hazards for soldiers.

thats what i noticed they have a few niche things that have made them an effective heavy support in my main playthrough, an i feed just them foul meat from the animal tray

[Xero]

Originally posted by Lumin_Knight:

so who wins 1 greenlander with 25 str, 30 tough, 6 dex, 25 melee attack an defence with heavy armour. or two hivers workers 20 str, 50 toughness,20 dex,20 melee attack an 40 defence in ultra heavy equipment
my greenlanders had way more training btw i dont think my hive workers ever trained strength on purpose , than they have faster attacks an are quiker to recover mid combat an after combat

I've used a group of 8 Greenlanders and 2 Shek to fight Bugmaster before with my side having around 40 in stats. One went down rest had minor injuries.

I've used a group of 1 Prince and 18 Soldiers to fight Bugmaster before with my side having 60 in stats. 10 Soldiers went down, major vital damage on the rest. Were it not for the fact I was running my mod that increased the vitals of the Prince and Soldiers, I woulda lost every unit that dropped mid-fight. That woulda left me with quite a few casualties of higher skilled units compared to the Greenlander and Shek team.

[Erei]

Originally posted by Lumin_Knight:

so who wins 1 greenlander with 25 str, 30 tough, 6 dex, 25 melee attack an defence with heavy armour. or two hivers workers 20 str, 50 toughness,20 dex,20 melee attack an 40 defence in ultra heavy equipment

Who win, an army of sheks or a single crippled hiver ?

Yes obviously, if you have twice the amount of hivers, with better gear and better stat, they are going to win. But anybody would. That doesn't mean they are superior.

The hivers have no bonuses that make them superior, they do have multiple maluses however.

Originally posted by Lumin_Knight:

my greenlanders had way more training btw i dont think my hive workers ever trained strength on purpose , than they have faster attacks an are quiker to recover mid combat an after combat

Hivers have no bonuses to str. Neither do greenlander. They train str as fast in each case. You either used different weapons, have the hivers work harder job, or they were encumbered. In any case, they don't train faster, they train as fast, but you did something different. If you had a shek, he would have had even more strength.

[Chicago Ted]

Originally posted by Erei:

Originally posted by Chicago Ted:

Everything a hiver can do other races can do better, except speed. Hivers are the fastest race in the game but that's about it.

Workers and prince are good worker, the first for science related stuff and the other for hard labor.

Other than that, yeah,... I have some success with Beep as a thief, they do have racial bonus, but that's pretty much it.

They get a racial xp bonus to these stats, but they aren't better at it, they'll just learn quicker than the rest. Given how much of a time sink the game already is, I don't think it makes much of a difference if a worker learns something 20% faster. The only exception is speed since they get an actual multiplier for the stat itself, meaning they're the fastest race in the game, even without scout legs. But with scout legs they zoom across the map in no time.

Yet the utility in combat isn't really there, unless you want to micromanage until your fingers bleed. The RPG elements that normally alleviate the shortcomings of certain races aren't to be found in Kenshi. If we had a critical hit mechanic, Hivers could excel at that for example which might make them worthwile to take along.

As it currently is, though, Hivers are designed as a horde race with expendable forces. Which makes them pretty much useless in the player's hands because the player can't capitalize on them being expendable. The dev seems content on seeing that through, given how the newly added Hiver shirts are pretty much worthless.

[iokimg]

Hives can eat foul raw meat. Can you?

OP.

[Bedelguese]

^

[The United States of America]

Skeletons = Ubermensch

[Lumin_Knight]

its been real hard finding enough hivers to make a horde mostly just finding useless princes

remember princes an workers are great at stealth mechanics mostly the prince is just stealth k'o, stealth heal exploit an when my hivers go down they stealth heal everyone an get back up mid combat, i never said theyre amazing its just might be worth taking 4 hiver tanks or whatevs over one animal for similar food value

[[BLA]Unmortal]

i dont wane be a bummer but once some one allows hivers to wear something to protect there legs or arms better like serten chainmail sleaves custom made for hivers.

if not gone happen then i stil find them uther useless as combat class i personal only use them as labours for my base.

also if you realy wane try out this hiver army of youres go to there mortal enemy beakythings or find a beakything nest and try to destroy it.

ive seen limbs flying in mid combat even with very good geared sqaud members with over priced armour.... i stil dont know what the safest option is to fight beaky things except for building hunting cabines in there terrirtory and killing them with mounted crossbows. but anything you build destroys a serten area of spawning of mobs.

so yeah if you realy wane see how good youre hiver army is go fight beaky things and please film it. and compare youre army with hiver towns who are slowly consumed by beakythings if not carefull.

[Lumin_Knight]

Originally posted by BLAUnmortal:

i dont wane be a bummer but once some one allows hivers to wear something to protect there legs or arms better like serten chainmail sleaves custom made for hivers.

if not gone happen then i stil find them uther useless as combat class i personal only use them as labours for my base.

also if you realy wane try out this hiver army of youres go to there mortal enemy beakythings or find a beakything nest and try to destroy it.

ive seen limbs flying in mid combat even with very good geared sqaud members with over priced armour.... i stil dont know what the safest option is to fight beaky things except for building hunting cabines in there terrirtory and killing them with mounted crossbows. but anything you build destroys a serten area of spawning of mobs.

so yeah if you realy wane see how good youre hiver army is go fight beaky things and please film it. and compare youre army with hiver towns who are slowly consumed by beakythings if not carefull.

Wow the hiver i seen at the village soloed 2 with no almost no damge so maybe villagers have been rebalanced
but i see your point high limb damage equals very bad for hiver ill just have to settle for groups with blunt weapons
they still get extra attack an blocking frames so they are not completely useless they just wont last in the long run

[[BLA]Unmortal]

the thing with hive villages is if you stay longer and the mobs dont die off it becomes a slaugther house.

also they mostly have anything avaible in small supplys i mostly do a couple for trades and items i need but some hive villages are so bad they actract a lot of mobs.

multibale occasions i play with a high mob spawn rate and also if villages are under siege for to long the hivers will become less and less untill you can barely leave the area.

hivers are good workers but there not usefull for me in combat also gowing in dangerous areas for special items or gear requires prep work and i cant realy see the effectness of a hiver in most case situations in combat.

i would love to see a mutated hiver specie or DNA enchanted one like some mad scientist cloned them and adjusted them in middle of old tech labortary with a chemist and dna libary and something of injector device to alternate the hiver whos put in the machine unconsiouces.

ofcourse a cell complex with hivers and gaurds (like slave traders) who capture and bring hivers for experiments like dismemberment rate on versions 1 2 3 4 5 of hivers
forced work force to gather resources around the complex to pay the bills.

occasionaly beat ups of hivers and down talk to keep em in line and random shouts like its youre time now when they drag a beat up hiver to his cage or injector machine.

hiver failed experiments livestock for wild beat up beakthings kept in captivity for hide and meat.
and then you have options for like taking this faction of the map or keep getting good trade ins cash wise for hivers you bring to this complex.

or a chance to own youre personal improved hiver slave/recruit bought of this faction.

i mean just picture a wealthy guy gowing nuts about hivers but he only wants the best results out of them and not curent stats they have but at same time he despises them and finds them usebale material for his research and nothing else + filling his own pockets in meantime with cash for all his cruelty.

i mean my fantasy runs rampant with these ants would love to see something as this implented we do got cannibals already who eat people and weakish ants in serten circumstances and slave camps but i would love to see something more evil then those if you get my point

[MajorSpud]

Well it is about right that hivers are weak in the beginning,

but in my playthrough as free Hive i have now 80 hivers, 23 princes, 28 Soldiers and the rest working drones.

The thing with hivers is that what i experience each subrace has certain bonusses, and they are by far more easy to feed than any other race.

Princes get bonus in scinece related skills, and workers in basic ones like labour.

Workers and princes gain dex very fast, why I equip them either with xbows or small weapons like wakizashi or similar,

The soldiers gain toughness quick, so i have a squad of soldiers now with roughly 70 toughness, and they overcome basically all.

As I see it, one has to adjust to their strengths and weaknesses, and then you can take on almost anything.
Their low food requirements also give you the chance to sustain large forces easily, and then their numbers are winning many fights.

I am at the moments establishing a base near the ashlands, and here another thing comes in handy, as the three subraces all have immunities to different effects like acid and gas.

but yes, the limb loss gets very costly, and building robotics is still hard as there is no storage box for them as far as I know yet.

So in general its a good challenge and just a different way of playing the game with them.

I like them a lot. creepy little bugs.

[Lumin_Knight]

i want them to be able to work as a competant race badly, but trust me they do a good job as distractions in group fights as greenlanders :p
i just wanted to test if they were viable as there own race after all the ♥♥♥♥ they get in the community, not princes those low health bastards have a stealth heal niche

[Lumin_Knight]

i was thinking if they just regrew limbs than there problems are gone :p

[[BLA]Unmortal]

Originally posted by Lumin_Knight:

i was thinking if they just regrew limbs than there problems are gone :p

they need lizard DNA (muwhahaha)/injects poor hiver worker.