Physics

[MikeFulton]

I'm really hesitant to yell "Physics Bug" here -- it's a lot like yelling "Fire" in a crowded theater. So instead let me just describe something I've noticed without labeling it as a bug. Then if people wish to comment, great.

On occasion, I notice that the ball seems to accelerate at an unusually high rate when most of the movement going on is horizontally across the table. The ball will be stopped or hardly moving but when it starts rolling it accelerates at a much faster rate than seems appropriate.

The main scenario is when the ball goes down the side lanes and then towards the flipper. If we assume the dimensions of a typical pinball table, the horizontal distance from the side lane to the center drain will be about 12 to 15 inches. The "vertical" distance from the top of the side lane to the center drain is probably about 8 to 10 inches.

The table's surface is sloped so that the ball will roll from the top to the bottom. Absent something like a bumper acting on the ball, the only thing that should ever increase the ball's speed is gravity, which will be modulated by the slope of the table.

How steep is the table's surface supposed to be? If you've seen photos showing the side view of a real pinball table, you know that the "top" of the table is only a few inches farther off the ground than the "bottom" of the table. In other words, the slope of the table really isn't that steep.

How much farther off the ground is the top of the side lane than the center drain? An inch? That;s how much gravity is acting on the ball as it travels perhaps a total of 25 inches down the side lane and then towards the center drain. Sometimes it seems like the ball moves across this distance much faster than it should.

In the real world, friction between the ball and the table surface will slow down the ball, but I'm not entirely sure if Zen's physics engine makes any attempt to factor that into the equation. Maybe that's the reason why it seems off to me.

[Matt Beeching]

Agreed. I take particular issue with lane acceleration and target deflections.

With something like Medieval Madness those troll targets dull the pace, but with Zen's they ricochet like bullets, invariably at death angles.

Lane acceleration is similarly ridiculous as without nudge passing you end up playing and scooping shots.

I suppose a final criticism remains those slings, all too often it's:
Bang > Slap > outlane
Bang > Bang > Slap > outlane
Sling-top bounce > outlane

Slings should add some spice but these just pummel the ball into a surface so it drops dead. I can't stand orbits which ping balls off the sling top into the outlane either.

[MikeFulton]

Publicado originalmente por Matt Beeching:

With something like Medieval Madness those troll targets dull the pace, but with Zen's they ricochet like bullets, invariably at death angles.

Clarify please... "with Zen's" is referring to Zen original tables or did you mean Zen's version of Medieval Madness (versus Farsight's I suppose?)

[Matt Beeching]

Publicado originalmente por mfulton:

Publicado originalmente por Matt Beeching:

With something like Medieval Madness those troll targets dull the pace, but with Zen's they ricochet like bullets, invariably at death angles.

Clarify please... "with Zen's" is referring to Zen original tables or did you mean Zen's version of Medieval Madness (versus Farsight's I suppose?)

Zen originals, I have fewer issues with Williams. The geometry of these new originals seems to favour little sling tickles or top hops but seems very forced. Everything involving target shots results in lightning returns.

[QLIQ]

I agree, the ball bounce from sidewalls needs to be looked at sometimes it accelerates at an insane speed. AND the gap between the flipper and the lane has 100% a bug where the ball will not bounce and just drop dead down.

These are true Alt+F4 moments. Both in FX and M.

[Pinballwiz45b]

Publicado originalmente por QLIQ:

I agree, the ball bounce from sidewalls needs to be looked at sometimes it accelerates at an insane speed. AND the gap between the flipper and the lane has 100% a bug where the ball will not bounce and just drop dead down.

These are true Alt+F4 moments. Both in FX and M.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/the-new-pinball-dictionary#post-2789076

"Need something to describe the drain that happens when you try to do a dead flipper pass / bounce pass, but instead the ball lands in that space between the top of the flipper and the bottom of the inlane plastic area.

So the ball hits that area, and it either redirects straight down the middle at high-speed, or it hops up a few inches and arcs down the middle.

Frank Romero suggested the "Bunny Hop."
I sometimes call it a "Joint Drain" because it landed on the joint."

[QLIQ]

Publicado originalmente por Pinballwiz45b:

Publicado originalmente por QLIQ:

I agree, the ball bounce from sidewalls needs to be looked at sometimes it accelerates at an insane speed. AND the gap between the flipper and the lane has 100% a bug where the ball will not bounce and just drop dead down.

These are true Alt+F4 moments. Both in FX and M.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/the-new-pinball-dictionary#post-2789076

"Need something to describe the drain that happens when you try to do a dead flipper pass / bounce pass, but instead the ball lands in that space between the top of the flipper and the bottom of the inlane plastic area.

So the ball hits that area, and it either redirects straight down the middle at high-speed, or it hops up a few inches and arcs down the middle.

Frank Romero suggested the "Bunny Hop."
I sometimes call it a "Joint Drain" because it landed on the joint."

Interesting, thanks for your input.

[lucent]

Since the slings were talked about, I wonder if they toned it down for System Shock.

Could be it's just a new table and different, but the slings feel pretty good on SS. They don't seem as sensitive or over powered. Like on tables where the ball bounces back and forth, until it gets enough momentum to land in a side drain.

Then you have the tables where the ball just brushes a sling and still gets kicked hard away from the flippers. In SS it feels like you can brush slings on certain angles and still be able to grab the ball with a flipper.

Could be the table is just new to me, I don't have much playtime on it yet.