Criticisms of the game

[Inno]

Let's get this straight before we go on: I LOVE THIS GAME. And I 'understand the developer's artistic vision/purpose/etc." So don't freak out when I criticize the game and call me an idiot, ♥♥♥, ♥♥♥♥♥♥, moron, or anything else. I state this because some people defend the game as though it were their own life's work. If someone criticizes it, they take it as some sort of personal insult to them. And to those people: I bought the damn game, I can criticize it if I want. So before you even start ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ at me, shut the hell up. To everyone else who is willing to converse without resulting to name-calling, go ahead. Oh, and people... please, please, PLEASE make sure that you have your facts straight before posting. We live in the digital age. There's no excuse for you to get some REALLY basic piece of information incorrect. So, yeah, all I ask in this discussion is for "basic human niceness" and knowledge on the topic at hand. Thank you in advance. :)

Alright, so on to the criticisms!

1) The controls are awful. Awful, awful, awful, awful. It is so very obviously made as a port from the Android version of the game. The problem with that is, uh... I'm playing on a PC, not an Android device. The bandit shootouts are the biggest example of this, as bandits in the top corners are nigh impossible to hit simply because you can't see where you're shooting, so your bullets goes a few pixels above or below the bandit. This is a universal problem, though. Shooting as a whole is simply not good. So this is two forms of shooting mechanics in a row that aren't good (I have problems with the original Oregon Trail's shooting mechanics, too). Outside of the really poor Angry-Birds style shooting (I'm sorry, but my gun is a gun, people. Stop telling me to imagine it as a slingshot), the bike gang sections feel weird. If I hold 'W' or 'S' down for more than a second, my car keeps moving after I let go. I never feel as though I'm in complete control of the vehicle in these sections. These aren't hard sections, but they could be made better.

2) Interface is still pretty bad. Better, but bad. The original Organ Trail borrowed Oregon Trail's interface, which is fine. Flash Organ Trail was basically a rather nice reskin of the Oregon Trail. The the Android users, that interface wouldn't have worked out too well, so, understandably, changes were made to make the interface usable for mobile users. However, again, this is the PC, not a mobile device. I use a 1080p monitor (more on that in a bit), yet I can't get the health of my characters and the stats on one screen. I have to alternate between tabs all the time. It doesn't seem like a big problem, but it builds up over time. A interface built for the PC isn't an immediate necessity, but it sure would be nice to have at some point. And for those that like this interface, I wouldn't mind it being availble my hitting a checkbox in the options. Some personal preference when it comes to things like interfaces never hurt anyone. :P

3) Aww, where'd the original soundtrack go? Don't get me wrong, Ben Crossbones did an amazing job with the music here, but the option to listen to the original soundtrack without having to download it and manually throw it on in the background would be rather nice. Something like a slider that lets you hear Ben's version versus the original version of each piece of music for each situation would be nice. What I mean by this is something in the options that looks something like this:

"Traveling: Ben ----[Slider here]--- Original
Combat: Ben ---[Slider here] Original"

And so on. You get the drift. When you put the slider, say, on Ben, you get to hear Ben's rendition. If you put it on Original, you'll hear the original. Then you'll be able to leave it there, then hear it in the game.

4) Parties are almost useless. So, from what I can tell, companions do the following to help you: Act as a shield for you, sometimes activate special events, give you more points in the end, help you with the end generator sequence (which I've completed by myself without much of a problem) make shooting through hordes easier(?). But they do the following to hurt you: Annoy the group; eat more food; don't help you when scavenging, doing jobs, or anything else, really; ruin money, food, scrap, and other useful ♥♥♥♥; have to be healed all the time or you lost a shield. However, the point of having the shield is so YOU don't die. Yet I have to spend hard-earned money on medkits so that they don't die. I COULD be spending that money on combat training, upgrades, bullets, fuel, etc., but I'm instead babysitting these people that offer nothing in return. I wouldn't mind healing them as long as I found them useful enough. But that's the problem, isn't it? They aren't useful except whe you can trade them for bunches of fuel or whatever... which doesn't really make them useful, it just makes them another expensive-to-maintain item, like the station wagon, but without reasons to 'maintain' them. As I've said before, I wouldn't mind them giving you small bonuses. For instance, every additional member of your party left alive allows you to carry an extra 25 or 50 ounces of food when you scavenge. Things like that would make them GENUINELY useful and would add so much more to the game. Because, if they're useful, you'll try to keep them alive, thus making the money spent on medkits instead of other resources a worthy trade-off rather than a waste.

5) The game's buggy. Achievements don't work properly, for instance. On my first playthrough of the Director's Cut, I killed one perfectly healthy teammate (because I didn't name him somebody that I'm emotionally attached to and because, of course, I didn't have any reason to keep him alive). The other party members died by either zombie bites (I put them down, of course. 'Twas the nice thing to do), or pissing and never coming back. When I beat the game, I didn't get the 'There Can Only Be One' achievement, but instead the 'The Loner' achievement. I didn't kill my healthy teammates, but I did certainly end up in Safe Haven alone. Also, the number of tombstones I look at isn't being recorded properly, as it shows a much lower number than I've actually looked at. The same applies for 'Sleuth.' Then, of course, there are normal gameplay/interface bugs, such as the following: http://i.imgur.com/KK9Mshk.jpg .

6) No resolution option. I won't complain further because I know you're going to add that in soon. :)

Some other suggestions (Emphasis on the 'SUGGESTIONS' part): 1) More variety in the jobs. The three available are decent, but get old fast (especially the bandit one due to the poor shooting mechanics).

2) Upgrades for the gun.

3) Allow the character to run, if only for a VERY brief period of time. Why someone would only walk in a zombie-apocalypse with zombies RIGHT BEHIND THEM, I'm not sure. It's not a necessary change, but it would be kind of nice to see.

Alright, so there's my wall of text. To the developers, PLEASE don't think I'm being a douche or anything. I'm being blunt because that's simply how I am. Anyway, thank you for the game as it is, because it's very entertaining. I just want to help you guys make the best game you possibly can. Later, guys!

[Boco]

Originally posted by Aedan Clarke:

What you said

1. It's not a port. I made it for PC first but with the mind to make sure all controls work on touch and mouse input. Port implies that the PC version was a second thought. It was not.

2. I work really hard on the interfaces. You might understand that we were struggling between usability and the limitations that we set for ourselves by sticking to the Apple 2 aesthetic. I'm sorry you don't like it but I'm proud of what we accomplished. UI is not easy and OT is 90% UI.

3. For the original we used a lot of free music that was only possible because the game was free. Once we decided to make it a commercial product, we could no long use those tracks. We tried contacting the artist to see if we could buy the right but 80% of them never responded to us. So we just did our own thing. I like both soundtracks.

4. It's your story. I don't prevent you from playing how you want. They offer benefits and drawbacks. Spend your resources on them or on you. We don't have a morality system but that doesn't mean there isn't supposed to be a morality to your own personal story. Personally I perfer having a party and playing the good guy. If you want to be purely utilitarian about the game then kill them. You can. But if you are playing for score, don't. I'm not sure why letting you play however you want is a bad thing. We don't punish you for people dying... is that what we did wrong?

5. Sorry. We've never made a steam game before. It's hard for two guys. We're working on it.

6. Dumb decision being fixed in the next update.

1. That would take a lot more dev time. We really need to just fix this game and make a new one.

2. Those sort of exist in the combat upgrades.

3. Hmmm... nah. That would change the balance of the combat. I like that it's hard.

Thanks.

[LuckyDude]

Originally posted by Aedan Clarke:

The bandit shootouts are the biggest example of this, as bandits in the top corners are nigh impossible to hit simply because you can't see where you're shooting, so your bullets goes a few pixels above or below the bandit.

For me it's very easy to hit a bandit.

Originally posted by Aedan Clarke:

3) Aww, where'd the original soundtrack go?

I ripped the music from this game, so I actually know, how this game stores music. I can make a mod that brings a flash version of soundtracks. But... I never played the flash version, so I don't know, what I should replace.

[Inno]

Originally posted by Aedan Clarke:

3) Aww, where'd the original soundtrack go?

I ripped the music from this game, so I actually know, how this game stores music. I can make a mod that brings a flash version of soundtracks. But... I never played the flash version, so I don't know, what I should replace. [/quote]

The Flash version is still available for free on the dev's site. You should go for a playthrough and hear the music. :)

[Inno]

Oh, Boco, I have no clue how I missed your post. OOPPSSIIEES.

1. Maybe so, but it still at least feels like a port. I feel like I'm playing an Android game on my PC. *shrugs* Sucks that feelings are subjective.

2. Well, that's unfortunate. I still definitely stand by what I said, though I understand your side.

3. Ah... well, that kind of sucks. But now I know why it wouldn't work.

4. Not quite. It isn't that you're not punishing us when they die, it's that we have no incentive to keep them alive. Let me explain some more: As this is a game, no matter what you name your party members, they still remain mostly text. Text that screws you over sometimes and, on very specific occasions, helps you. So, from a technical standpoint, I don't exactly see much of a point of these party members when their usefulness is actually VERY limited. You have no reason to spend a bit of money or resources on them because they give almost nothing in return.

To use a different example, imagine a store that gives you $25 for every $100 you spend there. There's another store down the road that sells the same stuff that doesn't give you any money back, though. People are going to go to the first store because it gives them something in return. So the latter store is going to go out of business because they don't offer people incentive to shop there. This game needs to give that incentive to keep your party members alive.

5 & 6. It's understandable. I'm not trying to hate on you guys or anything, just bringing to your attention the bugs and such small things.
---------------------------------------------------------
1) Again, understandable, though very disappointing.
2) I later found these upgrades. Had to get to my fourth playthrough to find them, so... yeah.
3) I shouldn't have said "upgrades." Sidegrades is a better term. So a shotgun would use more ammo and could hit more zombies in one shot, but the spread makes it rather innaccurate. Things like that, for instance. But this is probably useless, due to your reasoning given with (1).

[Sgt. Cuddles]

I dont know if this is me being dumb or if this even belongs here, but my car wont start? I have everything in order but it gives me the miles to a destination and then i can stop or look at how im doing, there isnt even the animation and no events happen? Is this something im doing wrong... Btw great game!

[0gb.us]

1) I love the controls. I understand that some people don't, but that doesn't make them bad. Likewise, I don't like the controls on some other games but others do. Likewise, the controls for those games aren't bad, they just aren't to my personal liking.

2) I'm going to have to begrudgingly agree that the interface could be better. I find myself flipping between the rest tab and the supplies tab every in-game hour to make sure I don't rest through good scavenging times, when the zombie activity level could be displayed on all tabs. This isn't the only example of an interface issue, but it's the one that sticks in my mind the most. While I think the interface is mostly-great, it could be improved.

3) No comment, Boco already covered why that isn't possible.

4) If parties seem useless to you, kill them off in the beginning. Problem solved. Some people will find them useful to keep around while others will find them a burden. It's all about playing style. As far as med kits, why are you using them on party members? Food is cheaper, and can be used while resting to heal the party. Save the med kits for yourself or incapacitated (not just weakened) party members.

5) Aye. Working achievements would be nice. But even without achievements, the game is fun.

1) I think the lack of job variety might be a reflection of simpler times in gaming. It fits with the overall mood of the game well.

2) Gun upgrades: Action Star (I think that's what it was called, I forget. Maybe it was Action Hero ...) and Faster Bullets.

3) In the real world, that would make sense, but in a game, I'd say that would make it too easy.

EDIT: Fixed a typo.

[Inno]

Originally posted by 0gb.us:

1) I love the controls. I understand that some people don't, but that doesn't make them bad. Likewise, I don't like the controls on some other games but others do. Likewise, the controls for those games aren't bad, they just aren't to my personal liking.

2) I'm going to have to begrudgingly agree that the interface could be better. I find myself flipping between the rest tab and the supplies tab every in-game hour to make sure I don't rest through good scavenging times, when the zombie activity level could be displayed on all tabs. This isn't the only example of an interface issue, but it's the one that sticks in my mind the most. While I think the interface is mostly-great, it could be improved.

3) No comment, Boco already covered why that isn't possible.

4) If parties seem useless to you, kill them off in the beginning. Problem solved. Some people will find them useful to keep around while others will find them a burden. It's all about playing style. As far as med kits, why are you using them on party members? Food is cheaper, and can be used while resting to heal the party. Save the med kits for yourself or incapacitated (not just weakened) party members.

5) Aye. Working achievements would be nice. But even without achievements, the game is fun.

1) I think the lack of job variety might be a reflection of simpler times in gaming. It fits with the overall mood of the game well.

2) Gun upgrades: Action Star (I think that's what it was called, I forget. Maybe it was Action Hero ...) and Faster Bullets.

3) In the real world, that would make sense, but in a game, I'd say that would make it too easy.

EDIT: Fixed a typo.

You just replied to a dead thread that's been dead for 4 months. What the hell, man? And I already got a reply from Boco anyway. Why would I need you to reply?

*sigh*

Oh, and @RaZe Is it too hard to make your own thread for that?

[0gb.us]

This thread got bumped, it seems. I don't check dates, so I thought it was a new topic.

[Sgt. Cuddles]

Sorry op, i was looking over random posts and made mine on an after thought.
:P

[Puddson]

This game totally rules.