Dormitory vs Cell vs Holding Cell

[Mr. Bear]

So, currently i am making a prison solely based on 3 person dormitories to see what happens, but until that is done, i wanted to ask, what are your experiences each type of cell in terms of advantages and disadvantages?

-We know and love the standard cell which can be 2x3 or less to fit a single prisoner.
-Dormitories come with the advantage of fitting 1 prisoner each 4 spaces at the expense of privacy need.
-Holding Cells do not count towards your prisoner cap and can fit emergency intakes and also serve as the default grade 0 cell (in my experience, even if the game doesn't explicitly say that.)

That being said, if you guys have tried a dormitory only prison, what advice can you give or what advantages have you noticed compared to a cell only prison?

[lissa_981]

I have done both.. back in the day (pre dorms) I had some huge holding cell prisons:
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=428802536
but after dorms were introduced I began changing over to them. I rarly use holding cells anymore.

There were 2 big issues, one is a lack of privacy. Min sec and normal inmates don't care much, but max sec can get rather testy about lack of privacy. The close proximity of inmates means once the fight starts more inmates are going to get involved so you need to prepare accordingly. The other issue is tunneling. Be aware that that many prisoenrs can tunnel quickly and your gaurds will need to detain all escapees.
I usually settle for a mixed dorm/cell system with each wing housing around 300 prisoners:

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=678063862

[Mr. Bear]

Originally posted by lissa_981:

I have done both.. back in the day (pre dorms) I had some huge holding cell prisons:
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=428802536
but after dorms were introduced I began changing over to them. I rarly use holding cells anymore.

There were 2 big issues, one is a lack of privacy. Min sec and normal inmates don't care much, but max sec can get rather testy about lack of privacy. The close proximity of inmates means once the fight starts more inmates are going to get involved so you need to prepare accordingly. The other issue is tunneling. Be aware that that many prisoenrs can tunnel quickly and your gaurds will need to detain all escapees.
I usually settle for a mixed dorm/cell system with each wing housing around 300 prisoners:

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=678063862

So, would you say that fitting more prisoners is not worth the sacrifice of privacy need?

[lissa_981]

for low sec, absolutly. normal sec isn't too bad either. I put all my instagators in there, and just manually assign them a cell. FOr max sec I'd sayeither smaller dorms, and a lower ratio of them. Prisoners can got 3-5 days in a dorm before thier privacy need is high enogh to cause issues, so as long as they don't spend longer then that in there, and get cycled into a cell it's all good.
NOTE: I feed 3 high/high meals which keeps prisoners calm

[bellwoody]

In my prisons, my ideology for all kinds of cells are:

Holding cell is a backup and keeping close for inmates(staff only). But I'd not remove it, that's a buffer in order to turn events on.
I love to use dormitaries, but the pravicy is a truly trouble and made inmates unstable.
Cells are only for max or super max, they are expensive and all funiture have only service for 1 inmate, not 4 or 8.(that dormitary best is)

I'd tried dormitaries only prison before, but max dormitaries have loads of trouble and somebody may get killed almost everyday.(and I couldn't sell that prison )

Max inmates love to fight/kill with their roommate without reason, that's means trouble and harder to control the death toll. In my latest 2 prisons, max security prisoners had their own cells, but sometimes, they would try to get into another cell and trying to murder another inmate, the conflicts had been reduced when campare with dormitaries, but still keeping going.(and my warden is "Pacificer",it's hard to deal with max prisoners)

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=668174068
(Beware, it's laggy, over 1500 inmates)
This is my previous prison, all dormitaries for med, min and PC inmates. All cells for max and supermax, the pravicy needs have under control.

To control pravicy need, get dormitaries inmates with their own bed in divided room(DON'T USE bunker beds), I've designed rooms like sleepbox or capsule hotel within dormitaries. At least, my pracvicy needs had in perfect condition before the numbers of inmates below 500.

With more and more of inmates, pravicy needs is getting harder to maintain, I'm still looking for better solutions to deal with pravicy needs in huge prison.

[identifiedasbeingdisrespectful]

Dorms will not reduce privacy as long as they have a certain size per inmate housed in it. I had this argument before and made a test prison to prove it. I didn't find the exact limitaions on size, but big enough to obscure their view of each other would no longer harm privacy. It should be public and my screens from it.

I did not test it with max sec but they're the only ones that actually get rowdy over privacy consistently unless that's been changed. Others will just not fill, but don't start breaking stuff every morning.

You can make dorms or cells that contain your prisoners whole lives other than food and effectively have them on permanent lockdown. Cost is obviously the factor there.

[lissa_981]

Here's a shot of my dorm 'pods':

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=557978898

In later interations I would remove the pool tables in favor or windows as the pool tables never really got used anyway, and use the space they occupy for shower stalls (much like the toilet stalls) havingf no one watch you as you pee and shower seem to be very important in keeping the privacy need in check.

[identifiedasbeingdisrespectful]

Originally posted by lissa_981:

Here's a shot of my dorm 'pods' In later interations I would remove the pool tables in favor or windows to conserve space and use the space they occupy for shower stalls (much like the toilet stalls) havingf no one watch you as you pee and shower seem to be very important in keeping the privacy need in check.

I think it just has to do with being outside of the visual range of other inmates at any time. It seems to degrade a lot faster at toilet, shower, and clothing changes. I haven't poked around in the game files so I'm not totally sure. Pretty sure privacy can raise any time a prisoner is not in the visual range of another prisoner. Guards didn't matter in my domitory test prison as I had some stationed in the dorm.

[lissa_981]

That might explain why it worked so well then. I used LD rather then yard time allowing them 3 hours of FT a day, and 5 of work so the prisoners had plenty of chances to go to thier bed cubical and change without anyone esle being right there. Honestly it didn't work too badly for max sec either, I seperated out all the extrealy volitile;'s into S. Max, and they had thier own cells. I had a few issues in max sec mostly cause once 1 prisoner lost his s*&t then 1/2 the dorm would join in, but enven then it was controllable with only a few deaths, I should have expairemented with adding armed gaurd patrols for supression (I didn't have any, just the pacifier warden)

[Mr. Bear]

Very informative thread so far, so what i'm gathering at the moment is the following:

-Low Security are OK without sufficing their privacy need
-Med Security are OK without sufficing their privacy need
-Max Security are better placed in cells rather than dormitories.
-Super Max are better on their own cells
-Protective Custody are OK with dormitories for the most part.
-Dormitories are better made when they are one huge "apartment" kind of layout as prisoners won't see each other.

Do these rules apply the same in women prisons?

[lissa_981]

yep, but you can't put mommies in dorms, they can only live in special family cells.

[bellwoody]

I'm focusing on female prisons.
In my workshop, the big prisons are only for feamle, smaller test subjects are male prisons.

But I'd never tried hard to compare the pravicy needs between male and female prisons, only tested in subject 1499, that's only test for better pravicy dormitories.

Family cells are expensive, in my currect prison, I'd taken PC's family cells out from shared family cells zone. PC mothers had also in danger and may get killed, so I've put PC family cells with PC dormitaries.

I've also got some ideas from here, hope I could melt them into my further prisons.

[lissa_981]

I'd add gang member to the list of dorm no-nos, 'course I automaticlly put them in s. max.

[No Grandpa Joe]

Leave MaxSec and Protective (ex law, etc..) out of dormitorys. Doing so will keep the heat down for the most part.

[Divine]

My prison is holding cell only with over 1k max sec prisoners.

At least they cant tunnel out of holding cells but danger level is obviously constantly high.

No worries though since i can just keep shooting them and get fresh prisoners and lots of money.

Welcome to my concentration camp. Glory to Arstotzka.

[identifiedasbeingdisrespectful]

Family cells don't have to be overly expensive, and you only really need a handful per hundred or so prisoners. It's not like they're getting knocked up somehow while in prison, they're coming in pregnant. They will also stay in the infirmary after delivery if there's no family cells or intake if there's no infirmary it seems. Not sure where they go if no holding cell or intake because I never open my prisons without the basic grants done already. Some come in as moms already, but it's a low ratio.

The minimum size for a family cell will make it more expensive in guard costs because they can't see in from outside the door, but the moms usually seem to be less violent and you can use a camera to cover up to three family cells. I place my nursery (mom canteen) right out of the doors from the family cells and have cameras on the back walls of the nursery peering into the family cells. Only really need one or two guards stationed in the nursery then for safety. Keep the whole thing blocked off from other cell blocks. Keep in mind that while expensive, for smaller scale sections and operations like family cells, placing exercise equip or even phones in the cell can greatly mitigate needs management. Unless directly assinged to yard time, they'll freely use any cell ammenties when there and seem to prefer it during free time.

Edit: the only difference for women's prisons is moms and their special buildings/needs. All else is same.