Janitors don't work

[CryGuy]

You might say there are not sufficient janitors. Maybe, but the problem is that those I have are just slowly walking around without working (idle). They are not tired, and the dirty areas are reachable..

If I select one janitor and manually send him to a dirty location, others are automatically following him and start cleaning that room, but only that room. This proves that the area is accessible. Then they go back into idle. But why do I have to trigger cleaning on my own? Is there a known reason?

I've read this problem already reported in 2013 but without a permanent solution- still not fixed?

[CryGuy]

:)

But what just helped me - you may want to save the game before:
Select Materials (and NO sub item), then drag a rectangle over the whole map with the right mouse button. Before releasing the button, you'll see all job locations as green rectangles. For me, this was a good insight:
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1582603992
If you release the button, you delete all these "jobs" without dismantling everything. I don't know which types of jobs exactly, but at least the cleaning jobs (gardener, janitors). In my case, this was a kind of "reset", as the game started by renewing the job list as it was visible from appearing white rectangles in the top view rows of the map. From there, janitors started cleaning the whole area. Just mentioning if it helps anyone.

[CryGuy]

I guess, this could be the explanation for the whole problem:
I have a large no-access section. It's dirty, but it does not need to be cleaned. I think, as long as there are so many dirty squares, the game does not append additional squares from accessible areas to the queue even if you want them to be cleaned. In other words: The janitors have a lot of work, but as they can't reach it, they do nothing instead of cleaning the accessible areas. I'm pretty sure that's it.

[MekaDovah]

The thing with access only is that it's supposed to change people's pathing preferences, not deny them access entirely. If cleaning an access only zone is the only way to go, the janitor should have no problems entering. I only brought it up because I wasn't sure if having the zones somehow messed up their pathing anyway. There are a number of things that are supposed to influence character pathing, but they're iffy sometimes.

I'm still annoyed my prison had an issue where doors I made to help my staff were being used by civilians - particularly parolled inmates from prot sec. They would take those outlets to try and exit the prison, but the path took them through max sec and they would get butchered.

This is despite the fact such a route was longer than just using the front door and I had no idea why they kept taking the longer route (and I know it was longer because I measured the distance) so I was forced to seal off those exits even if it bogged down staff traffic. Pathing in this game can be very finicky.

What you found regarding jobs getting piled up and unattended for some reason seems like the real culprit. Thank you for sharing that. I will be sure to keep an eye out for it in the future if I see anything like this.

[CryGuy]

Originally posted by MekaDovah:

The thing with access only is that it's supposed to change people's pathing preferences, not deny them access entirely.

I don't have access-only zones. Only no-access zones.

I just read a note in the wiki for the cleaning Cupboard:
http://devwiki.introversion.co.uk/pa/index.php/Cleaning_Cupboard
"If you design an area to be off limits to prisoners, sometimes all cleaning tasks will be assigned there, effectively stopping your prisoners cleaning."

It's a quandary now: If I keep the no-access zone, it will still be getting dirty and prevent the janitors from cleaning accessible areas either (because they first want to clean the no-access zone). So I would have to grant access, but as a consequence, I need so many more janitors. These are extra costs just for cleaning an area that doesn't need to be cleaned. :/
I can't have prisoners do the cleaning work there, too, because it must not be a staff-only zone, then. Consequently, as there are many empty prisoner cells there, prisoners would be accomodated there - which I do not want. They should only clean there.

So, I know the cause of the problem now, but I don't know how to achieve my goal.

[MekaDovah]

Wait are we talking about the zones with purple stripes that are accessable and just encourages traffic to go around it (Access Only) or do you mean the orange striped zones that literally have no access at all (No Access)? Because if it's the latter that might be causing the problem.

What you just said makes it sound like you only want your janitors to clean certain areas and not others because it is not necessary. If that's the case, I'm not sure if that's possible (though sure would be nice).

Also, as a frame of reference my main prison is the size of the default largest starting lot and I have only ten janitors tending to the entire thing. Yeah, there are always dirty spots, but between the janitors and prisoners on cleaning duty it's generally okay. I have some areas marked as Access Only to try and keep staff and prisoner traffic from intersecting too much, but no No Access zones.

I do have another prison with a handful of small No Access zones due to how I shaped the walls that don't seem to be causing too much trouble yet, but I did have to tweak things like the reception area to avoid having dirty clothes accidentally getting stuck in them.

[CryGuy]

Originally posted by MekaDovah:

Wait are we talking about the zones with purple stripes that are accessable and just encourages traffic to go around it (Access Only) or do you mean the orange striped zones that literally have no access at all (No Access)? Because if it's the latter that might be causing the problem.

As I wrote before, I don't have access-only zones (purple). Only no-access zones.

What you just said makes it sound like you only want your janitors to clean certain areas and not others because it is not necessary.

Right. I wrote that I've constructed it only to achieve the 200(?) cells goal, and that I don't need these cells (yet), hence I've locked the doors.

If that's the case, I'm not sure if that's possible (though sure would be nice).

Also, as a frame of reference my main prison is the size of the default largest starting lot and I have only ten janitors tending to the entire thing. Yeah, there are always dirty spots, but between the janitors and prisoners on cleaning duty it's generally okay. I have some areas marked as Access Only to try and keep staff and prisoner traffic from intersecting too much, but no No Access zones.

Yeah, meanwhile I've opened the no-access areas for staff only and found out that the janitors I had - even more disburdened by prisoners cleaning areas free for everyone - were sufficient. So I don't need many more of them as I first thought. Regarding this, everything's running fine now, and I've learned something again.
Thank you.

[MekaDovah]

Awesome. Glad things worked out.

[kbmodigity]

Originally posted by CryGuy:

:)

But what just helped me - you may want to save the game before:
Select Materials (and NO sub item), then drag a rectangle over the whole map with the right mouse button. Before releasing the button, you'll see all job locations as green rectangles. For me, this was a good insight:
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1582603992
If you release the button, you delete all these "jobs" without dismantling everything. I don't know which types of jobs exactly, but at least the cleaning jobs (gardener, janitors). In my case, this was a kind of "reset", as the game started by renewing the job list as it was visible from appearing white rectangles in the top view rows of the map. From there, janitors started cleaning the whole area. Just mentioning if it helps anyone.

If thats all the showers you have with that many cells, you must have lots of stinky angry about hygene prisoners i would think.

[CryGuy]

Originally posted by kbmodigity:

If thats all the showers you have with that many cells, you must have lots of stinky angry about hygene prisoners i would think.

Sufficient for 85 prisoners. They don't complain.