Understanding character building and battles

[Joel X]

Having gotten wiped out at the Nest of Eagles battle, where the regular enemy unions were easy enough but the bosses were good at insta-kill attacks (BR of about 46), I need to double-check how this game actually works.

Is it true that, aside from healing and item skills, characters should be set to use either all combat skills or all mystic skills? Even characters that appear to start off as hybrid classes, like David or Caedmon (or, technically, Rush)? I'm getting the impression that specialization is preferred, since I tried to set up some hybrid unions and I don't think it has paid off.

So I get that characters should be grouped by attack type; all combat skills or all mystic skills (especially if I don't try to create hybrid unions anymore). More often than not though only the union leader actually does the attack type I've requested while the remaining characters just do regular attacks. It's only when a union has a substantial amount of AP that characters other than the leader can do a combat/mystic skill, which means having the union spend a few turns just doing regular attacks. I suspect this is messing up their training. How do I manage this, especially for training, beyond occasionally changing the leaders of my unions?

Is there any way to avoid interceptions during battles? Usually I try to deadlock as many enemy unions as I can to prevent or limit enemy flank attacks (if this is a bad strategy let me know). This usually works, but I do run into the occasional interception which harms my morale. Is there any way to predict and prevent interceptions?

Are there any guidelines for when and how often I should be engaging regular mobs? I get that I should create links whenever I can; I can usually get links of three, which sounds low when I think about it. The only other guideline I've heard is to not grind, except I don't know how much battling I'd need to do for it to be considered grinding. Besides, hunting monsters for random drops for guild quests can often feel like grinding anyway.

[SenMithrarin85]

I'll try to help as much as I can.

Firstly, with regard to combat/mystic.hybrid. Putitng a mystic unit in a combat union will mean either starving the mystic person of art experience by that union only using combat arts or slowing the growth of the combat art guys because they will only attack when the mystic person uses an art. So its better to group characters around what type of art you want them to use. As for specialising, I have done them all. I have had guys like Torgal and Caedmon as Hybrid combat/evocation art users, and as sole combat art users (although I did train torgal's psionics later). Either way is fine. However, focusing on one type will mean that type gets used more often and thus will level faster. Training both will cut art experience in half and half. There is a way around this:

Later in the game, you will come across a quest called Cosmos Girl. During this quest you need to head over to a woman named Sheryl who will then ask to be taken to Nagapur. You will also notice a large golden dragon not too far from where you are. This is a rare monster called Bai Ze that has about 60,000 HP. You can find him outside this quest, but he's guaranteed to spawn during it. Now here's the trick:

If you take Sheryl to the exit of crookfen YOU CAME IN FROM, then the quest will complete. However if you fight and kill Bai Ze, and the exit crookfen through the southern exit (the one you didn't enter from) then the quest will suspend. This means you can trigger the quest and fight Bai Ze over and over again. Allowing you to train your arts as much as you want/need to.

As for interceptions, I am unsure on this. It seems to happen mostly when you are fighting stronger enemies, so I am guessing its based on some sort of speed stat, meaning that they are deadlocking you before you can deadlock your desired target. You can minimise this by attacking the enemy union closest to you. Deadlocking as many unions as you can to minimise flanks is usually a good idea.

The union leader is given AP priority so outside of Bai Ze training (preferably in the Orb Formation to minimise AP cost when casting) you might need to rotate your formations around, by maybe putting the guy/girl in a lower position in the union a bit higher up. I usually use guys with either unique arts or remnant weapon arts as leaders. That way if you get the choice to use them in battle, everyone in the union will dodge any attacks from enemies until the art gets used.

As for grinding, I have found the Battle Rank guidelines in the following guide useful:

http://uk.ign.com/faqs/2010/the-last-remnant-walkthrough-1090862

However, the leaders it says to use/not use is highly subjective, so take that part with a pinch of salt.

Hope this helps.

[Joel X]

Thanks for the advice.

Originally posted by SenMithrarin85:

Firstly, with regard to combat/mystic.hybrid. Putitng a mystic unit in a combat union will mean either starving the mystic person of art experience by that union only using combat arts or slowing the growth of the combat art guys because they will only attack when the mystic person uses an art. So its better to group characters around what type of art you want them to use. As for specialising, I have done them all. I have had guys like Torgal and Caedmon as Hybrid combat/evocation art users, and as sole combat art users (although I did train torgal's psionics later). Either way is fine. However, focusing on one type will mean that type gets used more often and thus will level faster.

OK. Is there a good way to decide what attack type a unit should focus on, besides class and strength/intelligence? I'm wondering because, having restarted my game and played up to just before the Catacombs, my only fully mystic unit right now is Pagus (on top of the six main characters I've hired Baulson, Loki, and Caedmon). Unless I stick Pagus in a singleton union or switch him over to combat arts, I need to select at least two other characters to be mystic units.

[Zloth]

Eeesh, more Bai Ze exploits. DON'T DO THAT! And ignore that damned IGN walk-through, too, it's not worth reading. You can get through this game just fine without exploiting its bugs. Sheesh.

Is it true that, aside from healing and item skills, characters should be set to use either all combat skills or all mystic skills?

Absolutely NOT! This isn't a "know your role" MMO. You can drop them into a combat focused union or a mystic focused union and they'll do fine. That flexibility is good to have.

Regarding leaders hogging all the AP - yeah, they do that. One of the advantages of having several small unions is that you'll have more leaders and thus more flexibility in training (though they'll have fewer AP to do it with). It's a big game, though, so you can swap leaders out easily enough. You don't even have to bust up the union, just have them trade places.

Is there any way to avoid interceptions during battles? Usually I try to deadlock as many enemy unions as I can to prevent or limit enemy flank attacks (if this is a bad strategy let me know). This usually works, but I do run into the occasional interception which harms my morale. Is there any way to predict and prevent interceptions?

Speed will help prevent that over the course of the game but you're still in the first third. What you can do is look at the mini-map. If your union is trying to attack an enemy that's close then you should be safe. If you're trying to attack a union that has other enemy unions (that aren't deadlocked) between you and the target union, then you run a high risk of interception. You might be better off attacking the close union.

In general, I find it's best to gang up on an enemy if I can. In boss/rare fights, I'll sometimes send one union to engage the boss then let the rest of the unions gang up on whatever enemy union seems the most deadly.

Are there any guidelines for when and how often I should be engaging regular mobs?

Just play "normal" mostly. Link as many enemies as you think you can defeat. The game actually gives you better rewards for a battle that turns out to be difficult. Note "turns out" to be difficult isn't the same as "should have been" difficult! The only exception I can think of is when trying to get those guild quest rare monsters. In those cases I'll try to avoid battles - at least on the way in.

BR 46 is a tad high for Nest of Eagles but, if you've already advanced in a guild, it's not that surprising and certainly not a horrible "oh no, must restart!" problem.

There are plenty of enemies out there that can kill off one of your unions in a single round. But then, one vivification herb and one healing spell can have that union back on it's feet at full power in one turn, too - and maybe with a speed boost to boot! Get a few folks good at rezzing/healing and spread them around into as many different unions as you can.

[Joel X]

Originally posted by Zloth:

BR 46 is a tad high for Nest of Eagles but, if you've already advanced in a guild, it's not that surprising and certainly not a horrible "oh no, must restart!" problem.

Well, I did do a tone of side quests before reaching Nest of Eagles too.

There are plenty of enemies out there that can kill off one of your unions in a single round. But then, one vivification herb and one healing spell can have that union back on it's feet at full power in one turn, too - and maybe with a speed boost to boot! Get a few folks good at rezzing/healing and spread them around into as many different unions as you can.

I actually ended up without vivification herb on anyone by the time I got to Nest of Eagles. Reading about how vivification is a good thing to have around there is what made me rethink how exactly I'm playing.

[SenMithrarin85]

Originally posted by PotatoMan:

Originally posted by Zloth:

BR 46 is a tad high for Nest of Eagles but, if you've already advanced in a guild, it's not that surprising and certainly not a horrible "oh no, must restart!" problem.

Well, I did do a tone of side quests before reaching Nest of Eagles too.

There are plenty of enemies out there that can kill off one of your unions in a single round. But then, one vivification herb and one healing spell can have that union back on it's feet at full power in one turn, too - and maybe with a speed boost to boot! Get a few folks good at rezzing/healing and spread them around into as many different unions as you can.

I actually ended up without vivification herb on anyone by the time I got to Nest of Eagles. Reading about how vivification is a good thing to have around there is what made me rethink how exactly I'm playing.

That's where keeping a low-ish BR can help I think. If you are fighting enemies that are stronger than you, you'll end up healing more often, and thus your herb arts will advance to vivification easily by the nest of eagles.

[BLAME! 40K]

go on lastremnanwiki they epxlain well how the battlerank works , as example the best br to kill the bosses of nest of eagle is 36 (thats the boss base br) or br66+ ( cause after br 66 the boss dont get stronger). every enemy has a base br , if u reach that base br the enemy gets 2 lvl stronger , if u reach now that lvl the enemy gets 6 lvl stronger and if u reach that level the enmy goes 8 lvl stronger. but any enemy has a maximum battlerank where it cant go above , so u play this game way 1: dont farm unless u are way below a boss u have to finish . or way 2: farm as hell and get maximum lvl (maximum battlerank of the last boss is 99 )

[BLAME! 40K]

i got the same problem dont knowing that on boss fights and was always dying to bosses. now i play this game the 3rd time and only farm for boss fights after watching on lastremant wikki there stats and base/ maximum br helped me:D

[FlamboyantMongoose]

ive gone hybrid on the majority of my characters
currently at base 6/br59 and doing quite well so not worried about specialization (going to get to 61-62 before doing base 6 though)
the flexibility is great for me
i do have one unit with four primarily physical attackers (baulson, blocter, gaou, that one qsiti guy) but even they know healing and a couple hex/trap/exposive/etc.

my favorite character in the game thus far (and she is a spoiler to name but you guys know who i mean) is a hybrid and she ALWAYS does the perfect action even if i give her a sub-optimal one she ignores me and does a better one... so good, even though other spoiler female-magic-user ganks best character's remnant weapon (also i wish rush and david were more like her)

did nest of eagles at about br 25
it took a few tries but eventually a little luck and good strategy wins the day
luck can also entail getting that special attack for david which just kills everything (didnt happen for me but may for you)

regarding documented help: i have been using the outline on the the last remnant wiki
it was helpful for the config file modding and the walkthrough outline is perfect for me
it gives no tips/help or specific instructions (i dont want these) but does give indications as to "this quest is now available; you can now recruit this person; these areas are now available to explore; if you advance past this point these parts of the game change/lock; this is where you go next to advance the story; etc" which are priceless in my opinion

[Li Shengshun/Bk-201]

Originally posted by BLAME":

go on lastremnanwiki they epxlain well how the battlerank works , as example the best br to kill the bosses of nest of eagle is 36 (thats the boss base br) or br66+ ( cause after br 66 the boss dont get stronger). every enemy has a base br , if u reach that base br the enemy gets 2 lvl stronger , if u reach now that lvl the enemy gets 6 lvl stronger and if u reach that level the enmy goes 8 lvl stronger. but any enemy has a maximum battlerank where it cant go above , so u play this game way 1: dont farm unless u are way below a boss u have to finish . or way 2: farm as hell and get maximum lvl (maximum battlerank of the last boss is 99 )

The Endboss has a Max br of 145 , however some rare mobs have even higher (into the 200`s). I reached eagles nest with a br of 16 myself (got totally wiped out) , then farmed to 36 and 1 shotted them. Now im with br 81 on the seventh path and its still going well.

You dont really have to use the Wiki, just observe enemys and if a boss doesnt work farm a bit that your people get stronger or try a different tactic (worked until this point for me, gonna see how it continues).

[Joel X]

I guess what I'm really grappling with is how much fighting I need to do. Fight too little and the game becomes boring and my characters develop too slowly. Fight too much and I raise my Battle Rank too fast.

When I was playing "normally" I'd kill every monster in an area that I'm visiting for the first time. Is this too much? How would I factor in revisiting areas for side quests and such?

[FlamboyantMongoose]

the easy way to do it (and what i did) is just check the br of the next few characters you can recruit
way higher? fight more
pretty close to your br? fight the same amount
lower than yours? fight less

e.g. i was at br 35 at the aqueducts beginning
i popped in and out and recruited a guy at br 45
this meant i needed to fight more
i fought a bunch before clearing the aqueducts so i finished it at 43
bingo
ezcheese

also note you can stunt your br growth by not chaining enemies when fighting
i had my br at about 8 for the first namul niram fight by doing that BUT OHMYGOD THAT WAS HARD DONT KEEP IT AT THAT LOW OF A RATE caps lock

i would definitely not fight every enemy you come across unless your br is really low
you end up visting and revisiting so many areas if you are going for an at least decent completion percentage that it becomes so much

eventually you hit a rhythm and i dont even think about br management anymore because it just flows so naturally and i can instead devote that micromanagement thought process to what should my units look like/what order should i do the side quests/have i visited all the cities to do parameter bonus talks and guild tasks and new shop items checks recently/etc.

[Joel X]

Originally posted by FlamboyantMongoose:

the easy way to do it (and what i did) is just check the br of the next few characters you can recruit
way higher? fight more
pretty close to your br? fight the same amount
lower than yours? fight less

Characters have individual battle ranks? Where is this shown?

[Li Shengshun/Bk-201]

Originally posted by PotatoMan:

Originally posted by FlamboyantMongoose:

the easy way to do it (and what i did) is just check the br of the next few characters you can recruit
way higher? fight more
pretty close to your br? fight the same amount
lower than yours? fight less

Characters have individual battle ranks? Where is this shown?

You can compare the overall stats and decide based on that. When i think about hiring a new guy i first look if hes stronger at phsyick attacks or magic , after that i look how much difference in the hp are between him and my weakest in character in that art. ( i try not to have a bigger difference then 150 hp) and also i look how many spells does the guy i already have know. Im not gonna trade someone who has developed 15 mystic arts against a guy that has the same stats, a bit more hp but only 2 mystic arts.

[jrlennis]

Characters have individual battle ranks? Where is this shown?

Individual battle ranks are not shown by the game. You'll have to look up those stats on the wiki.

[Bad_Conduct]

I'll take a big step back.

The combat isn't defined by the characters per say, it's defined by the teams. Make sure each unit is balanced.

But it makes a lot more sense as you progress further in the game.