Request from users to test flipper lag

[Roz1281]

So I've been experiencing (In Epic and Steam versions) a strange phenomenon. If a ball is rolling down the flipper at a decent speed, and I try to flip at the VERY end of the flipper, there will be a significant delay (sound and visual), resulting in a comically bad miss.

I was wondering if some of you all could test for me, and post your settings regardless.

My system is running the game locked at 120 with raytracing off, and everything runs beautifully except this issue. I've recently switched to borderless window, rather than fullscreen, since it's giving me much more responsive inputs overall.

ASRock B550 Phantom Gaming 4/ac
EVGA SuperNOVA 650 GT, 80 Plus Gold 650W
AMD Ryzen 5 3600 @ 3.6GHZ
Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO V2
16GB(2x8GB) Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 3200
WD Black SN750 NVMe M.2 2280 500GB PCI-Express 3.0
Crucial MX500 1TB SATA
GeForce RTX 3060 Twin Edge OC

If you try this, give it a handful of tries, and watch and listen to the flipper as you flip with the ball rolled to the very tip of it. It never happens if i catch the ball, then release flipper, since it's rolling too slowly.

I appreciate any time you guys and gals spend testing this. I'm eager to know if it happens to anyone else, as generally everything runs great on my system, but i know unreal 4 is notorious for things like latency and shader compilation stutter etc.

I'm going to do some more testing on my XBox , as I believe it happens there also. Though that version is laggy in general when it comes to inputs.

Update 4/24/23: I've switched to the Nintendo Switch pro controller, where previously I was using the XBox series gamepad. Both over bluetooth. I'm getting less random flipper lags with the NSW controller and keyboard the last couple days. I will try the XBox pad again soon.

Also of note, my first 7 hours or so, the tables were playing really fast, like godzilla was challenging with the speed of the ball. Today when i played, that and sorc's lair felt like they were in slow-motion. However, when comparing to the xbox version, it seems the slower pace is correct. I'm not talking performance, as I'm maxed out at 60 or 120, depending which i want. Not sure what was going on before. It reminded me of a thread where a user said the Thor table was in slow-motion, and I wonder if they had experienced the same fast pace before, and thought it strange.

I'm on latest graphics drivers also, and have reset the control panel settings. I then changed low latency to ultra, globally. Even with vsync at default in-driver, i'm getting fairly responsive flippers today. I'll do more testing once the switch controller charges, and I will swap to XBox and try that again also. Keyboard feels OK. Also I had reset my PFX settings, and am playing at 60 currently, with AA off (don't like the blurriness).

Update 7/5/23: Just a quick post to say that the recent patch seems to have solved the input lag for me. I've tried native 1920x1080 at 120 and it's great. Also currently playing with DLSS Balanced and RT on, and it's still responsive, even with the added input latency caused by DLSS and RT. Way better than before. I've tried keyboard and my 8bitdo XBox pad so far. Going to try the official Microsoft series controller next.

With the DLSS on (and other AA turned off), it gives me a nice soft image that kinda reminds me of the XBox 360 PFX1 (in a good way).

Appreciate the patch and hopefully this thread and all users input helped. I'd be curious to know what was wrong and how it was tackled, maybe in a future youtube episode.

[sdx]

Tried vsync off, set nvidia control panel to latency ultra as well. Still suffers from input lag using wired keyboard. Yes I also have FX3 and low latency mode = ultra fixed it there for me back in the day. I consider myself an advanced IRL pinball player since the 90s so yes even the slightest lag or stuttering is noticable for me. :) But to be fair, this is not the only pinball game that suffers from this to some degree. But this is borderline unplayable.

[pyide_maybe]

Цитата допису sdx:

Tried vsync off, set nvidia control panel to latency ultra as well. Still suffers from input lag using wired keyboard.

Do you have a wired gamepad you can try? It makes no sense to me, but you're not the first one here who has input lag with wired keyboard but not usb gamepad. Wireless pads seem hit and miss too.

Really strange. I would try and compare if you can. There is definitely something wrong with the game deep down when a keyboard is experiencing input lag.

[bazwelle]

I had a little bit a keyboard lag until I disabled vsync. Vsync is usually the cuprit for mouse lag as well.

[( ( < < <🤖> > > ) )]

is anyone looking into
computer monitoring and performance and rgb and fan software
like msi afterburner... icue... amoury crate...

i was looking to light up my ram and i came across a few
vids that talk about this software causing performance problems...

might be something.... might not..

[themazingness]

My biggest source of lag is the lighting. Turning down Gamma makes a huge difference. Unfortunately it also makes everything ugly.

I won't bother posting my pc specs. It's archaic, and I had to make a lot of changes to config files. These posts in the FX3 forums (before FX was released) were very helpful getting me up and running: https://steamcommunity.com/app/442120/discussions/0/3711559379112680432/

https://steamcommunity.com/app/442120/discussions/0/3487502140233302495/

[Emig5m]

Цитата допису themazingness:

My biggest source of lag is the lighting. Turning down Gamma makes a huge difference. Unfortunately it also makes everything ugly.

I won't bother posting my pc specs. It's archaic, and I had to make a lot of changes to config files. These posts in the FX3 forums (before FX was released) were very helpful getting me up and running: https://steamcommunity.com/app/442120/discussions/0/3711559379112680432/

https://steamcommunity.com/app/442120/discussions/0/3487502140233302495/

Gamma adjustment isn't available when in HDR mode..? I have a 3080Ti so I shouldn't be lagging in a simple pinball game no matter what.... FX3 runs mint maxed out 4k...

[Ryan Cook]

Цитата допису Emig5m:

Цитата допису themazingness:

My biggest source of lag is the lighting. Turning down Gamma makes a huge difference. Unfortunately it also makes everything ugly.

I won't bother posting my pc specs. It's archaic, and I had to make a lot of changes to config files. These posts in the FX3 forums (before FX was released) were very helpful getting me up and running: https://steamcommunity.com/app/442120/discussions/0/3711559379112680432/

https://steamcommunity.com/app/442120/discussions/0/3487502140233302495/

Gamma adjustment isn't available when in HDR mode..? I have a 3080Ti so I shouldn't be lagging in a simple pinball game no matter what.... FX3 runs mint maxed out 4k...

Yeah if a Xbox Series X can run it at 60FPS with Ray Tracing now, you should be fine, allthough saying that when it first released you had sub 60 fps so it was awful, to be honest I'm not sure how they fixed that as the settings are the same.

I think someone said the PS5 is very bad for input delay still but as far as I can tell, at least comparing FX3 directly to FX on my xbox, input is perfect now, but it took a few patches.

[Sorthious]

Цитата допису Ryan Cook:

Цитата допису Emig5m:

Gamma adjustment isn't available when in HDR mode..? I have a 3080Ti so I shouldn't be lagging in a simple pinball game no matter what.... FX3 runs mint maxed out 4k...

Yeah if a Xbox Series X can run it at 60FPS with Ray Tracing now, you should be fine, allthough saying that when it first released you had sub 60 fps so it was awful, to be honest I'm not sure how they fixed that as the settings are the same.

I think someone said the PS5 is very bad for input delay still but as far as I can tell, at least comparing FX3 directly to FX on my xbox, input is perfect now, but it took a few patches.

The game seems to have been released before being fully optimized, so it is going to be an issue on whatever platform you port it to. As far as input delay, or latency, I don't see this being a problem with any particular platform(PS5). How the input polling is done will have an effect, but I doubt Playstation is using inferior hardware that would make it worse than any other platform. So, given that, it basically comes down to how the game is programmed, and, likely, has a lot to do with how the Unreal Engine handles input polling.

[sdx]

Цитата допису pyide_maybe:

Цитата допису sdx:

Tried vsync off, set nvidia control panel to latency ultra as well. Still suffers from input lag using wired keyboard.

Do you have a wired gamepad you can try? It makes no sense to me, but you're not the first one here who has input lag with wired keyboard but not usb gamepad. Wireless pads seem hit and miss too.

Really strange. I would try and compare if you can. There is definitely something wrong with the game deep down when a keyboard is experiencing input lag.

The bad news is that I don't have a wired game pad. The good news is that I did some pretty serious testing, although my measurements were highly unscientific and subjective based on my (extensive) pinball experience. The setting that fixed it was to reduce post processing quality from high to medium! Frame rate limitations, shadow quality, antialiasing etc made no difference. But post processing quality did! So now it's good for me! I went from hitting 10-20% of shots to 70-80% now, which is what I would expect from a real table that I already master.

And no, I won't even mention ray tracing. Why? Because anyone would experience severe frame rate drops and input lag on my rig at least. :)

[Ryan Cook]

Цитата допису Sorthious:

Цитата допису Ryan Cook:

Yeah if a Xbox Series X can run it at 60FPS with Ray Tracing now, you should be fine, allthough saying that when it first released you had sub 60 fps so it was awful, to be honest I'm not sure how they fixed that as the settings are the same.

I think someone said the PS5 is very bad for input delay still but as far as I can tell, at least comparing FX3 directly to FX on my xbox, input is perfect now, but it took a few patches.

The game seems to have been released before being fully optimized, so it is going to be an issue on whatever platform you port it to. As far as input delay, or latency, I don't see this being a problem with any particular platform(PS5). How the input polling is done will have an effect, but I doubt Playstation is using inferior hardware that would make it worse than any other platform. So, given that, it basically comes down to how the game is programmed, and, likely, has a lot to do with how the Unreal Engine handles input polling.

Whatever they did do to the Xbox, like you said probably optimizing it did increase the framerate to 60 where it should have been and they did fix input delay, the only thing I can think of is maybe PS5 is a patch behind? Someone else mentioned it was bad in PS5 but I don't have one to check.

Performance was okay on most tables at launch but it's not framerate or performance that is the issue, it's the delay from button press to action, it's fixed now on console where I play primarily but if I can notice a difference from FX3 to FX using wireless/old TV with the processing that TV's have there is a problem at the game level.

[Ryan Cook]

Цитата допису Emig5m:

Цитата допису che_guewara:

flipper lag is horrible at the current state. Tried Wireless Xbox-Controller, PS5 Controller and Switch Pro Controller. Wired the lag reduces but still unplayable for me....
I'm on a 12900k +3080ti

*Edit Cabinet Mode btw

I'm telling you guys, you think the PC has input lag just try the PS5 version...I dare ya! :D

I'm just curious, on PS5, in the main menu background, do you have a shadow underneath the entire Pinball cabinet? This was fixed on a patch but When it released on xbox there was not a shadow, so if there is one then I can confirm the PS5 is on the latest patch with the Xbox Series X, because the input delay at least on console is now fixed, but if your PS5 has it they might be behind xbox patch-wise, not performance, I mean input delay, as you could be at perfect 60 and still have input lag, the issue is input lag not performance/framerate.

[Sorthious]

Цитата допису Ryan Cook:

Цитата допису Sorthious:

The game seems to have been released before being fully optimized, so it is going to be an issue on whatever platform you port it to. As far as input delay, or latency, I don't see this being a problem with any particular platform(PS5). How the input polling is done will have an effect, but I doubt Playstation is using inferior hardware that would make it worse than any other platform. So, given that, it basically comes down to how the game is programmed, and, likely, has a lot to do with how the Unreal Engine handles input polling.

Whatever they did do to the Xbox, like you said probably optimizing it did increase the framerate to 60 where it should have been and they did fix input delay, the only thing I can think of is maybe PS5 is a patch behind? Someone else mentioned it was bad in PS5 but I don't have one to check.

Performance was okay on most tables at launch but it's not framerate or performance that is the issue, it's the delay from button press to action, it's fixed now on console where I play primarily but if I can notice a difference from FX3 to FX using wireless/old TV with the processing that TV's have there is a problem at the game level.

Use of a TV, as opposed to a monitor, will create added latency(input lag). Depending on the age of the TV, it may have a Game Mode, which will greatly reduce the latency. Also, runing at a higher Hz will also reduce the input lag. So, if you can run at 120Hz instead of 60Hz, that will help; provided your GPU/Console can handle it. You will get the lowest input lag from using a monitor though.

The next cause for added latency, independent of the programming, is using Wireless/Bluetooth devices instead of Wired. Wired devices will always have a lower latency, and less input lag. You are right, though, it's not a performance/framerate issue, for most of us at least. It seems to be how Unreal Engine handles input polling that is the issue. The input lag may have always been there, but is more noticeable on a game like pinball, which is a heavily reaction-time based game. I never had the issue in FX3, so, it seems to be something with Unreal that's causing it.

[Emig5m]

Цитата допису Ryan Cook:

I'm just curious, on PS5, in the main menu background, do you have a shadow underneath the entire Pinball cabinet? This was fixed on a patch but When it released on xbox there was not a shadow, so if there is one then I can confirm the PS5 is on the latest patch with the Xbox Series X, because the input delay at least on console is now fixed, but if your PS5 has it they might be behind xbox patch-wise, not performance, I mean input delay, as you could be at perfect 60 and still have input lag, the issue is input lag not performance/framerate.

Yup, has a shadow under the table. Downloaded FX3 on the PS5 just to compare...same lag and jittery looking video. Here let me put it to you this way, 60fps/hz is never ever going to be as silky smooth as 120fps/hz. Once you're used to 120fps/hz 60 is poop. To understand you absolutely have to own a high end game rig and display. You can't ride a moped and think that experience translates into what the experience is of a superbike. Stern Pinball Arcade is also unplayable to me because its locked at 60fps. Once you're used to 120, not only does 60 lag, but also looks jittery. You absolutely need experience with a high end game rig to understand the difference and that's the fact of the matter. A moped doesn't equal a superbike experience. Yes they're similar in the sense that they both have two wheels and a motor but that's where the similarities end...the performance and experience is night and day difference.

[Emig5m]

Цитата допису Sorthious:

Use of a TV, as opposed to a monitor, will create added latency(input lag). Depending on the age of the TV, it may have a Game Mode, which will greatly reduce the latency. Also, runing at a higher Hz will also reduce the input lag. So, if you can run at 120Hz instead of 60Hz, that will help; provided your GPU/Console can handle it. You will get the lowest input lag from using a monitor though.

You should research the LG Oleds... faster pixel response than most monitors...and perfect blacks/contrast and looks better than any monitor and has Gsync/VRR. This isn't 2014.... I've had all the gaming monitors....they were ahead for response over TVs but they looked like trash. TVs caught up with response and look way better (and much bigger). I've owned them all. I had a hard time selling my last Asus gaming monitor...nobody wanted it and I was priced $100 less than anyone selling them and had a hard time getting $100 for a monitor that I paid $700 for. You won't beat a LG Oled TV these days...gaming monitors look like trash in comparison...owned them all.

[Ryan Cook]

Цитата допису Emig5m:

Цитата допису Ryan Cook:

I'm just curious, on PS5, in the main menu background, do you have a shadow underneath the entire Pinball cabinet? This was fixed on a patch but When it released on xbox there was not a shadow, so if there is one then I can confirm the PS5 is on the latest patch with the Xbox Series X, because the input delay at least on console is now fixed, but if your PS5 has it they might be behind xbox patch-wise, not performance, I mean input delay, as you could be at perfect 60 and still have input lag, the issue is input lag not performance/framerate.

Yup, has a shadow under the table. Downloaded FX3 on the PS5 just to compare...same lag and jittery looking video. Here let me put it to you this way, 60fps/hz is never ever going to be as silky smooth as 120fps/hz. Once you're used to 120fps/hz 60 is poop. To understand you absolutely have to own a high end game rig and display. You can't ride a moped and think that experience translates into what the experience is of a superbike. Stern Pinball Arcade is also unplayable to me because its locked at 60fps. Once you're used to 120, not only does 60 lag, but also looks jittery. You absolutely need experience with a high end game rig to understand the difference and that's the fact of the matter. A moped doesn't equal a superbike experience. Yes they're similar in the sense that they both have two wheels and a motor but that's where the similarities end...the performance and experience is night and day difference.

I understand, but this issue does not occur with Pinball FX3, only FX, I get what your saying but if it was my TV, or my wireless controller, I wouldn't be able to tell between both games, but the input delay issue is now fixed on the xbox console now, it is now on par with FX3, the delay must have been much much worse or exaggerated for me to tell between both games, but yeah like you said as standard TV's and controllers do have a delay like you would expect, and PC is beautiful, at 120hz/120fps.