Request from users to test flipper lag

[Roz1281]

So I've been experiencing (In Epic and Steam versions) a strange phenomenon. If a ball is rolling down the flipper at a decent speed, and I try to flip at the VERY end of the flipper, there will be a significant delay (sound and visual), resulting in a comically bad miss.

I was wondering if some of you all could test for me, and post your settings regardless.

My system is running the game locked at 120 with raytracing off, and everything runs beautifully except this issue. I've recently switched to borderless window, rather than fullscreen, since it's giving me much more responsive inputs overall.

ASRock B550 Phantom Gaming 4/ac
EVGA SuperNOVA 650 GT, 80 Plus Gold 650W
AMD Ryzen 5 3600 @ 3.6GHZ
Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO V2
16GB(2x8GB) Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 3200
WD Black SN750 NVMe M.2 2280 500GB PCI-Express 3.0
Crucial MX500 1TB SATA
GeForce RTX 3060 Twin Edge OC

If you try this, give it a handful of tries, and watch and listen to the flipper as you flip with the ball rolled to the very tip of it. It never happens if i catch the ball, then release flipper, since it's rolling too slowly.

I appreciate any time you guys and gals spend testing this. I'm eager to know if it happens to anyone else, as generally everything runs great on my system, but i know unreal 4 is notorious for things like latency and shader compilation stutter etc.

I'm going to do some more testing on my XBox , as I believe it happens there also. Though that version is laggy in general when it comes to inputs.

Update 4/24/23: I've switched to the Nintendo Switch pro controller, where previously I was using the XBox series gamepad. Both over bluetooth. I'm getting less random flipper lags with the NSW controller and keyboard the last couple days. I will try the XBox pad again soon.

Also of note, my first 7 hours or so, the tables were playing really fast, like godzilla was challenging with the speed of the ball. Today when i played, that and sorc's lair felt like they were in slow-motion. However, when comparing to the xbox version, it seems the slower pace is correct. I'm not talking performance, as I'm maxed out at 60 or 120, depending which i want. Not sure what was going on before. It reminded me of a thread where a user said the Thor table was in slow-motion, and I wonder if they had experienced the same fast pace before, and thought it strange.

I'm on latest graphics drivers also, and have reset the control panel settings. I then changed low latency to ultra, globally. Even with vsync at default in-driver, i'm getting fairly responsive flippers today. I'll do more testing once the switch controller charges, and I will swap to XBox and try that again also. Keyboard feels OK. Also I had reset my PFX settings, and am playing at 60 currently, with AA off (don't like the blurriness).

Update 7/5/23: Just a quick post to say that the recent patch seems to have solved the input lag for me. I've tried native 1920x1080 at 120 and it's great. Also currently playing with DLSS Balanced and RT on, and it's still responsive, even with the added input latency caused by DLSS and RT. Way better than before. I've tried keyboard and my 8bitdo XBox pad so far. Going to try the official Microsoft series controller next.

With the DLSS on (and other AA turned off), it gives me a nice soft image that kinda reminds me of the XBox 360 PFX1 (in a good way).

Appreciate the patch and hopefully this thread and all users input helped. I'd be curious to know what was wrong and how it was tackled, maybe in a future youtube episode.

[Ryan Cook]

Yeah also input lag is something that you can't see from a video recording of normal gameplay.

[nomatter]

I think it's more than likely that some people simply have bad reflexes and just don't notice the lag. After all were talking about a delay in the milliseconds.

[pyide_maybe]

Publicado originalmente por Ryan Cook:

Yeah also input lag is something that you can't see from a video recording of normal gameplay.

You could probably get one of those overlay things streamers use that show button presses, record a session, and then slow down the footage when it occurs. There are times it's so significant anyone would see how input to game action is delayed. Other times when it's very subtle and you would probably not be able to tell, even with slomo footage like that.

[Ryan Cook]

I have found some success when playing at 60Hz on steam deck to set the framerate limiter to 60 to reduce input delay.

I don't have any framerate issues so if I took a video it would look perfect too.

I tried 60Hz with unlimited framerate so I might have had the wrong settings set maybe interpolation or something from unlimited caused issues but I don't know.

I think the input delay issues are mostly unnoticed because maybe it only affects people playing at a lower refresh rate/frame rate.

The console launch was horrendous with input lag, go see the game on the Xbox Store, it got low rated to oblivion partly due to input delay issues.

[Ryan Cook]

Publicado originalmente por pyide_maybe:

Publicado originalmente por Ryan Cook:

Yeah also input lag is something that you can't see from a video recording of normal gameplay.

You could probably get one of those overlay things streamers use that show button presses, record a session, and then slow down the footage when it occurs. There are times it's so significant anyone would see how input to game action is delayed. Other times when it's very subtle and you would probably not be able to tell, even with slomo footage like that.

Yeah, you're right, that's a good idea, it's bad because it's a game based on reaction, and if the ball speed is so high it means you will have a very short time window to react, and the input delay will be large enough to exceed that short reaction window you will simply lose, when the ball is pinging all over the place or at the very least it will shoot it in the wrong direction.

[pyide_maybe]

Publicado originalmente por Ryan Cook:

I have found some success when playing at 60Hz on steam deck to set the framerate limiter to 60 to reduce input delay.

I don't have any framerate issues so if I took a video it would look perfect too.

I tried 60Hz with unlimited framerate so I might have had the wrong settings set maybe interpolation or something from unlimited caused issues but I don't know.

I think the input delay issues are mostly unnoticed because maybe it only affects people playing at a lower refresh rate/frame rate.

The console launch was horrendous with input lag, go see the game on the Xbox Store, it got low rated to oblivion partly due to input delay issues.

Some UE4 games have issues with unlocked framerates and framerates above 60fps for sure. Usually more like stuttering than input lag, though. I definitely noticed an improvement for the random excessive flipper lag in FX when hitting the refresh rate vs capping it lower for gsync like I usually do in most games. People experiencing a lot of issues should try forcing 60hz and 60fps in their game and compare, Steam Deck or desktop. Also try setting the nvidia low latency in the drivers to on or ultra in that scenario and see if that helps any.

Would also suggest dx11 mode in fullscreen if you are adamant about taking full advantage of gsync & freesync. It just doesn't seem work properly in FX dx12 here for some reason. Created more issues for me. Usually variable sync reduces input lag over vsync, in FX it was doing the opposite. ymmv of course.

[JLou56BZH]

Another thing, flipper lag / bad fps is also due to DMD on second screen.
As soon as you put the Pincab DMD ( for those who play with Pincab ) on another screen than the main screen, you loose aprox. 25% of fps. If you put the Pincab DMD ( i talked about the Pincab DMD in Pincab option, not the virtual "standard" DMD ) on the main screen, no problem

[QLIQ]

Publicado originalmente por Roz1281:

I'm starting to notice other random input lags regarding flippers.

It's likely a frame-pacing issue (common problem with devs using unreal 4). One user said you can't use riva-tuner statistics server or the game will run like crap, otherwise i could set that up and check out the frame-time graph. Maybe I'll try it anyway. Proper frame-pacing should be top priority for a pinball game, above graphics or anything else.

Anyone a digital foundry patron, and could ask them to take a look at this release? :p

The game offers perfect frame pacing. I always have riva tuner running and it is perfect flat line. If you want I can post a screenshot from a recorded session. It is 100% flat at 7.1 ms, (139 fps lock) it can´t be better, regarding frame pacing. But it would be good if someone who has issues shows bad frame pacing.

I limit my frames with riva tuner to 139 and let the game on unlimited with Gsync.

There are no streaming stutter but shader compilation stutter (when you see an effect for the first time).

Are you guys sure that you turned off vsync? But I would like them to add Nvidia reflex, since 100% there is always room for improvement.

However on my steam deck I notice it a lot. But 139 vs 60 fps is likely the issue.

[ROB AF]

Publicado originalmente por QLIQ:

However on my steam deck I notice it a lot. But 139 vs 60 fps is likely the issue.

I tried some side by side comparisons with desktop vs. steam deck last night, and the flippers are much more responsive on the deck. MUCH more. Too bad steam deck does not easily allow you to do portrait mode.

[Hinph]

I only experience it when the ball is rolling down towards the end of the flipper like others have said. It doesn’t seem to be a performance issue as my desktop is plenty powerful. Super annoying and needs to be addressed.

[Jaime.GGG]

I'm getting the same lag problem you described using an Xbox One controller.

[Roz1281]

Publicado originalmente por QLIQ:

The game offers perfect frame pacing. I always have riva tuner running and it is perfect flat line. If you want I can post a screenshot from a recorded session. It is 100% flat at 7.1 ms, (139 fps lock) it can´t be better, regarding frame pacing. But it would be good if someone who has issues shows bad frame pacing.

I limit my frames with riva tuner to 139 and let the game on unlimited with Gsync.

There are no streaming stutter but shader compilation stutter (when you see an effect for the first time).

Are you guys sure that you turned off vsync? But I would like them to add Nvidia reflex, since 100% there is always room for improvement.

However on my steam deck I notice it a lot. But 139 vs 60 fps is likely the issue.

Thanks for the info! I am starting to suspect it's just an issue with the programming of the physics engine then? Maybe something related to the speed or location of the ball. Without having a frame-time graph, I can still agree the game appears to be running smoothly locked at 120. I've tried all combinations of vsync on and off and various framerates. Currently I'm having vsync off in the driver, off in-game, but using the 120fps setting in-game. Feels responsive enough, other than the 'end of flipper' lag.

[Roz1281]

Publicado originalmente por Hinph:

I only experience it when the ball is rolling down towards the end of the flipper like others have said. It doesn’t seem to be a performance issue as my desktop is plenty powerful. Super annoying and needs to be addressed.

Glad I'm not going mad :) But not glad that it's there since it does ruin the game. I have conditioned myself to be afraid of flipping late now.

[Michelangelo]

Publicado originalmente por Jaime.GGG:

I'm getting the same lag problem you described using an Xbox One controller.

Please, can you try all these exact settings from my previous post that I'm quoting now?
Apparently these could fix the issue as there are valid results

Publicado originalmente por Michelangelo:

I'm getting butter sweet perfect smooth gameplay and 0 lag on flippers

I7 4940k / RTX 3080 / 16GB / NVME M2

4k + HDR + RTX

And on top of all that, I'm recording the gameplay for you to see how smooth it is:

https://youtu.be/UWXySZhj5JY

I also have a Virtual Reality headset that may be able to play this a 90 or 120 fps in true stereoscopic 3D, however there is no official support yet :(

Update to 531.61 version (without Geforce Experience)

EDIT: Nvidia settings are a key for this, so here they are:

https://ibb.co/1G7Sdd0
https://ibb.co/sjYLy5j

I disabled AA inside the game as I do not like it and I'm using an XBOX ONE Gamepad (cable ) with Steam Input DISABLED.

Also it is very important that you check that your TV / Monitor allows the refresh and it is set correctly.
Otherwise you Will see lag because even if the video card is rendering all the frames smoothly the TV / Monitor is not showing that properly, so DOUBLE CHECK carefully if you are still having problems.

[JLou56BZH]

Publicado originalmente por Roz1281:

Publicado originalmente por QLIQ:

The game offers perfect frame pacing. I always have riva tuner running and it is perfect flat line. If you want I can post a screenshot from a recorded session. It is 100% flat at 7.1 ms, (139 fps lock) it can´t be better, regarding frame pacing. But it would be good if someone who has issues shows bad frame pacing.

I limit my frames with riva tuner to 139 and let the game on unlimited with Gsync.

There are no streaming stutter but shader compilation stutter (when you see an effect for the first time).

Are you guys sure that you turned off vsync? But I would like them to add Nvidia reflex, since 100% there is always room for improvement.

However on my steam deck I notice it a lot. But 139 vs 60 fps is likely the issue.

Thanks for the info! I am starting to suspect it's just an issue with the programming of the physics engine then? Maybe something related to the speed or location of the ball. Without having a frame-time graph, I can still agree the game appears to be running smoothly locked at 120. I've tried all combinations of vsync on and off and various framerates. Currently I'm having vsync off in the driver, off in-game, but using the 120fps setting in-game. Feels responsive enough, other than the 'end of flipper' lag.

I'm agree. Like you, have vsync off in driver + in game, frame limiter in game, and it work perfect like that. It's the only way.