Why so many tables not in quest lines?

[MikeFulton]

Why aren’t there more quest lines?

I’ve always thought the quest lines were a great way to jump in and familiarize yourself with new tables and game modes that you don’t usually play. Some of my favorite tables got to be that way because I kept trying and trying to get that second or third level on a quest line challenge.

As of now, there are only 9 quest lines in the game, featuring 3 tables each. That’s only 27 tables total, with roughly 100 more tables that aren’t featured at all.

I seriously doubt there’s much development needed to add a quest line. Seems like it would be a graphic for the selection screen and an XML file containing the list of tables, play modes, and rewards.

Why no Star Wars or Marvel quest lines? There are over 20 tables for each, so you could easily have multiple quest lines or ones with more than the usual 3 tables each. Is it a licensing issue?

There are 3 tables each for the “Dreamworks” and “Game Night” table categories. And what about the Kong & Godzilla tables from the “Legendary” category? Each of these should have a quest line!

Star Trek!

There are a bunch of table categories with only one or two tables so maybe they could be combined for a quest line or two?

Half of the game’s Williams tables aren’t included in a quest line. We could get 5 more quest lines there!

[Jambon Emmental]

Because Quest Lines is yet another half-baked feature. Do it right or ditch it. And at least give users who couldn't care less about it the option to hide/ignore it / remove it from the main menus.

[MikeFulton]

Originally posted by Jambon Emmental:

Because Quest Lines is yet another half-baked feature. Do it right or ditch it. And at least give users who couldn't care less about it the option to hide/ignore it / remove it from the main menus.

The level of your dislike is palpable and frankly seems a bit over the top. I mean, is it really that hard to avoid it now? Just don't click that item in the menu.

What exactly would you consider to be "doing it right" anyway? It's hard to imagine what you would consider an improvement. If having more quest lines with a wider selection of tables isn't doing it for you, then what would?

[qu3ntenten]

Originally posted by Jambon Emmental:

Because Quest Lines is yet another half-baked feature. Do it right or ditch it. And at least give users who couldn't care less about it the option to hide/ignore it / remove it from the main menus.

mike demands answer you better make a full detailed reply.

Originally posted by MikeFulton:

Originally posted by Jambon Emmental:

Because Quest Lines is yet another half-baked feature. Do it right or ditch it. And at least give users who couldn't care less about it the option to hide/ignore it / remove it from the main menus.

The level of your dislike is palpable and frankly seems a bit over the top. I mean, is it really that hard to avoid it now? Just don't click that item in the menu.

What exactly would you consider to be "doing it right" anyway? It's hard to imagine what you would consider an improvement. If having more quest lines with a wider selection of tables isn't doing it for you, then what would?

[MikeFulton]

Before someone points out the fact that Pinball M doesn't even have the quest line feature, and suggests that it means that Zen has reconsidered the idea, let me point out a few things.

Yes, it's possible Zen has had second thoughts, but Pinball N has other reasons for not having quest lines. The main one being that quest lines in FX typically have 3 tables that are related in some fashion, like being from the same table pack. With Pinball M, the tables have all been released individually, not in packs of 3. Also, FX started off with a whole bunch of tables that were originally in FX3. so making quest lines with groups of 3 related tables was easily done.

There really isn't any logical way to group together tables in M for a quest line, which may be why they have the "Daily Challenges" feature. While the mechanism is a bit different from the quest line feature in FX, it seems to occupy a similar space in some respects.

[qu3ntenten]

Originally posted by MikeFulton:

Before someone points out the fact that Pinball M doesn't even have the quest line feature, and suggests that it means that Zen has reconsidered the idea, let me point out a few things.

Yes, it's possible Zen has had second thoughts, but Pinball N has other reasons for not having quest lines. The main one being that quest lines in FX typically have 3 tables that are related in some fashion, like being from the same table pack. With Pinball M, the tables have all been released individually, not in packs of 3. Also, FX started off with a whole bunch of tables that were originally in FX3. so making quest lines with groups of 3 related tables was easily done.

There really isn't any logical way to group together tables in M for a quest line, which may be why they have the "Daily Challenges" feature. While the mechanism is a bit different from the quest line feature in FX, it seems to occupy a similar space in some respects.

stop over thinking things. quest line is a FOMO effect to make you buy tables. its locked behind dlc just like 2 previous williams event grand tournament special cups. and same goes for coins which is now delisted.

[Jambon Emmental]

Originally posted by MikeFulton:

Originally posted by Jambon Emmental:

Because Quest Lines is yet another half-baked feature. Do it right or ditch it. And at least give users who couldn't care less about it the option to hide/ignore it / remove it from the main menus.

The level of your dislike is palpable and frankly seems a bit over the top. I mean, is it really that hard to avoid it now? Just don't click that item in the menu.

I actually think that, for the most part, the pinball in Pinball FX is excellent. It's (the cumulative impact of) all the guff around it that detracts from the core experience. I suspect Qu3ntenten is correct in this case: Questlines is a gimmick that cynically attempts to exploit a psychological weakness (in this case he suggests "FOMO") in order to generate more revenue. See also: collectables; the events; the XP system; and also the global leaderboards, the "news"/ads feed and the unpurchased tables tally that can't be ignored/hidden/disabled. Zen recently implied it is against "monetisation gimmicks" but these more subtle attempts to manipulate people are just as bad. It's adding insult to injury that none of these things are done well (and based on your recent post you seems to agree).

[MikeFulton]

Originally posted by Jambon Emmental:

I actually think that, for the most part, the pinball in Pinball FX is excellent. It's (the cumulative impact of) all the guff around it that detracts from the core experience. I suspect Qu3ntenten is correct in this case: Questlines is a gimmick that cynically attempts to exploit a psychological weakness (in this case he suggests "FOMO") in order to generate more revenue. See also: collectables; the events; the XP system; and also the global leaderboards, the "news"/ads feed and the unpurchased tables tally that can't be ignored/hidden/disabled. Zen recently implied it is against "monetisation gimmicks" but these more subtle attempts to manipulate people are just as bad. It's adding insult to injury that none of these things are done well (and based on your recent post you seems to agree).

I definitely agree that a lot of it isn't great, but I don't necessarily agree that it's all a waste of time. Yes, a lot of it is marketing fluff with a FOMO flavor to it, but it could be so much worse than it is.

After all, getting people to buy tables is how they make their money. You can't t realistically expect them to NOT take every opportunity to entice and cajole users towards buying tables.

I just think they could do it better. There are a lot of things which wouldn't require some huge development project. Like adding more quest lines. I doubt if adding a new quest line takes more than deciding on which tables and which play modes, and then creating a new graphic and an XML configuration file.I'm amazed they don't do it all the time.

[Darteroy]

For me the Quest Lines are training sessions. An incentive for me to also play the challenges. (1 ball, distance, time, flips). It helped me to get better on some tables. I wouldn't mind if more quests are added.

[Jambon Emmental]

Originally posted by MikeFulton:

Originally posted by Jambon Emmental:

I actually think that, for the most part, the pinball in Pinball FX is excellent. It's (the cumulative impact of) all the guff around it that detracts from the core experience. I suspect Qu3ntenten is correct in this case: Questlines is a gimmick that cynically attempts to exploit a psychological weakness (in this case he suggests "FOMO") in order to generate more revenue. See also: collectables; the events; the XP system; and also the global leaderboards, the "news"/ads feed and the unpurchased tables tally that can't be ignored/hidden/disabled. Zen recently implied it is against "monetisation gimmicks" but these more subtle attempts to manipulate people are just as bad. It's adding insult to injury that none of these things are done well (and based on your recent post you seems to agree).

I definitely agree that a lot of it isn't great, but I don't necessarily agree that it's all a waste of time. Yes, a lot of it is marketing fluff with a FOMO flavor to it, but it could be so much worse than it is.

After all, getting people to buy tables is how they make their money. You can't t realistically expect them to NOT take every opportunity to entice and cajole users towards buying tables.

It could be worse. There could be an in-game currency and a subscription service. But there isn't because users called them out on that BS and forced a backtrack. We can and should demand and expect better. These gimmicks are predatory and tacky.

I was reminded of a recent quote by the dev of a game called Split Fiction: “I understand that money is important, and that we live in a capitalist society, but creativity and money have to meet somewhere in the middle. It can’t be either too much creativity or too much money. We should focus on pushing our medium forward: no micro transactions, no ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥, just pure gaming love – because, ultimately, great games will do well."

If Zen had focused more on making a great game and less on greedily trying to nickel and dime their users then FX wouldn't be languishing with mixed reviews on Steam and more people would have bought it.

[qu3ntenten]

Originally posted by Jambon Emmental:

It could be worse. There could be an in-game currency and a subscription service. But there isn't because users called them out on that BS and forced a backtrack. We can and should demand and expect better. These gimmicks are predatory.

If Zen has focused more on making a great game and less on trying to extract money from users FX wouldn't be languishing with mixed reviews on Steam.

i bet mike had no idea it was EGS exclusive and irate most die hard pinballers in the first place. ppl actually asked if it would be cross-buy from EGS to Steam sadly thats a 'no' if y ou werent patient.

[Darteroy]

Going back on-topic. :)

Originally posted by MikeFulton:

Why so many tables not in quest lines?
Why aren’t there more quest lines?

I just watched some Pinball Bites on YouTube and in one of them they said they are going to add more Quest Lines. It seems to be popular.

[qu3ntenten]

Originally posted by Darteroy:

Going back on-topic. :)

Originally posted by MikeFulton:

Why so many tables not in quest lines?
Why aren’t there more quest lines?

I just watched some Pinball Bites on YouTube and in one of them they said they are going to add more Quest Lines. It seems to be popular.

i doubt legacy tables will be included

[Pinballwiz45b]

Originally posted by qu3ntenten:

Originally posted by Darteroy:

Going back on-topic. :)



I just watched some Pinball Bites on YouTube and in one of them they said they are going to add more Quest Lines. It seems to be popular.

i doubt legacy tables will be included

Williams Volumes 1, 2, 4, 5, and the freebies, disagree with you.

[qu3ntenten]

Originally posted by Pinballwiz45b:

Originally posted by qu3ntenten:

i doubt legacy tables will be included

Williams Volumes 1, 2, 4, 5, and the freebies, disagree with you.

'all' legacy :)