Backwards compatibility

[Jambon Emmental]

Interesting to hear Mel Kirk say "This concept of backwards compatibility has become a core foundational element of Zen" on the most recent Pinball Bites episode.

I wonder what's behind this change of heart.

Time to necro that classic thread about making old tables free on FX?!

UPDATE: On 20th Feb 2025 Zen gave the following update on Reddit:

"As Mel mentioned in our previous episode, we are trying to get back to our roots in terms of backward compatibility. Hopefully, we will be able to make this happen on other platforms in the future too.

It is important to note that we still face challenges with this concept, as not all platforms or licensors share the same philosophy in this day and age. However, where it is possible, we will try to make this happen."

[C²C^Guyver |NZB|]

You know he only mentioned Switch, right?

[MikeFulton]

Did you also hear him say that some platforms had issues that made things more difficult?

[Tactics Precise]

Originally posted by Jambon Emmental:

Interesting to hear Mel Kirk say "This concept of backwards compatibility has become a core foundational element of Zen" on the most recent Pinball Bites episode.

I wonder what's behind this change of heart.

Time to necro that classic thread about making old tables free on FX?!

Valve locked that thread for some bizarre reason.

[Kranky Pantz]

Didn't the previous versions of FX migrate to the latest version on Steam???

It was only the latest one which didn't, so if they can do it for a system as locked down as the Switch, I hardly think it would be an issue to do it again on Steam since it has been done before.

[Jambon Emmental]

Originally posted by C²C^Guyver |NZB|:

You know he only mentioned Switch, right?

In the immediate term, yes. But I thought the phrase "a core foundational element OF ZEN" was interesting. How can something be a core foundational element of a whole company if it only applies to one aspect of their output? (And if it's so "core" and "foundational" then why did they eschew this at launch?) Will be interesting to see how this plays out in future.

Originally posted by mfulton:

Did you also hear him say that some platforms had issues that made things more difficult?

Yes.

[ak64]

I think it's because not transferring the tables from FX3 to FX really did make them take a brand hit. FX is still recovering from the negative reviews from that decision. So from now on they're not going to do that, if there ever is a new version of FX.

[remm]

Very interesting. I went to watch the Pin Bites episode, and it looks like they won't do the same mistake again. Good to know.

[Jambon Emmental]

Can the new community representative perhaps shed any light on backwards compatibility on Steam going forward please? It's great news for Switch owners that they'll get the tables they bought in FX3 ported over to FX. I understand that this might not be possible on all platforms. Is it possible on Steam? And, if not, why not? Thanks.

[Biscuits]

I do love that I dont need to repurchase my Fx3 tables on Switch - eagerly awaiting both the free tables on my OLED Switch & Lite, and the 3 new tables on my OLED Steam Deck... since overclocking and undervolting Ive had a consistent 70-80fps on FX! Now... some kind of free moving camera support via the gyro for us Deck users would be a splendid addition! ... and the rest of the older Zen tables to make the FX leap. Just where are those?! Surely they'd be a cinch to port across given you (likely) own outright the art, music, code :)

[mystman12]

To be frank I think the main reason they're doing this is because they've realized no Switch user in their right mind will re-buy Pinball FX3 tables on Pinball FX. Last time I tried FX on Switch Fish Tales was still ugly and barely playable, with emulation that clearly couldn't keep up. If they can't sell the new versions to Switch users, they might as well give them away to at least try and get them on FX to hopefully buy more FX exclusive tables.

[Etchasketch]

Any official answers from Zen?

[MikeFulton]

Originally posted by Jambon Emmental:

Interesting to hear Mel Kirk say "This concept of backwards compatibility has become a core foundational element of Zen" on the most recent Pinball Bites episode.

I wonder what's behind this change of heart.

Time to necro that classic thread about making old tables free on FX?!

I am not sure you know what "backwards compatibility" means.

Traditionally, it means that a new release is compatible with an older platform than what is current. That is, you can go backwards with it. Something along the lines of coming out with a new table for FX but also making it work with FX3.

The idea has nothing to do with something like FX3 tables being free in FX.

Mel didn't explain what he meant, so it's possible that he said "backwards compatibility" but had a completely different idea in mind. Until he or someone else from Zen says more, we just don't know.

[Lambros]

Well Nintendo itself announced the Switch 2 would be backwards compatible so no great leap from Zen there.

[ak64]

Originally posted by mfulton:

Originally posted by Jambon Emmental:

Interesting to hear Mel Kirk say "This concept of backwards compatibility has become a core foundational element of Zen" on the most recent Pinball Bites episode.

I wonder what's behind this change of heart.

Time to necro that classic thread about making old tables free on FX?!

I am not sure you know what "backwards compatibility" means.

Traditionally, it means that a new release is compatible with an older platform than what is current. That is, you can go backwards with it. Something along the lines of coming out with a new table for FX but also making it work with FX3.

The idea has nothing to do with something like FX3 tables being free in FX.

Mel didn't explain what he meant, so it's possible that he said "backwards compatibility" but had a completely different idea in mind. Until he or someone else from Zen says more, we just don't know.

That's never been what backwards compatibility has meant in the context of video games. It always meant you could play PS1 games on PS2 or GC games on Wii or whatever.

[MikeFulton]

Originally posted by ak64:

Originally posted by mfulton:

I am not sure you know what "backwards compatibility" means.

Traditionally, it means that a new release is compatible with an older platform than what is current. That is, you can go backwards with it. Something along the lines of coming out with a new table for FX but also making it work with FX3.

The idea has nothing to do with something like FX3 tables being free in FX.

Mel didn't explain what he meant, so it's possible that he said "backwards compatibility" but had a completely different idea in mind. Until he or someone else from Zen says more, we just don't know.

That's never been what backwards compatibility has meant in the context of video games. It always meant you could play PS1 games on PS2 or GC games on Wii or whatever.

There is a distinction you zoomed past. You're talking about a SYSTEM being backwards compatible with older games, versus an individual DLC pinball table being compatible with a NEWER host game. Those are two different things.