I wonder how many Bally/Williams tables in Pinball Arcade will never be in FX?

[Paratech2008]

There were around 100 tables total which include Gottlieb and Stern, but at the rate of 6 Bally tables a year, how many will get added? Particularly when some requests are for other Bally/Williams tables, and pre 90s tables seem to not be getting added.

[Chelle]

I wish the lot!
Yet, I would be happy if Gorgar was released a 1979 table I have fond memories of.

I'm not really bothered about the generic Zen releases if honest.
Just original tables. And I believe that would be what the majority also wish for.

[Emig5m]

Could you imagine getting new real tables like Foo Fighters, Elton John, etc...and not some billion year old overplayed outdated crap...

[themazingness]

Yeah, I'm bummed I missed out on them. I suspect we'll never get anything before solid state machines.

[MikeFulton]

There are a few dozen Bally & Williams tables which are part of Pinball Arcade but which are no longer available for purchase. You can still play them if you had bought them while they were available.

The question I've always had is, why were those tables removed from the store? Was there something about the license that expired? Why did it not affect all the other Bally & Williams tables that are still in Pinball Arcade, not to mention FX?

This is important because it goes to the question of it being possible to make those tables available again in FX. If there was something about the license that caused them to be pulled from Pinball Arcade, it may be the the case that they would not be available to license for FX.

Does anybody know the story here?

Does anybody have those tables in Pinball Arcade?

[Paratech2008]

FX has the license to Williams / Bally tables. The Gottlieb and Stern tables are all that's left.

Farsight can't sell Williams and Bally tables anymore, but Zen can.

My point on the thread is there are FX customers who want those tables in FX, but it's fairly apparent @ 6 tables a year, not all of them will be available on FX.

[themazingness]

Originally posted by mfulton:

There are a few dozen Bally & Williams tables which are part of Pinball Arcade but which are no longer available for purchase. You can still play them if you had bought them while they were available.

The question I've always had is, why were those tables removed from the store? Was there something about the license that expired? Why did it not affect all the other Bally & Williams tables that are still in Pinball Arcade, not to mention FX?

This is important because it goes to the question of it being possible to make those tables available again in FX. If there was something about the license that caused them to be pulled from Pinball Arcade, it may be the the case that they would not be available to license for FX.

Does anybody know the story here?

Does anybody have those tables in Pinball Arcade?

Farsight can no longer sell those tables because Zen has exclusive rights to publish them now. That's why the tables were delisted from purchase.

There seems to be an exception though, because there is the Bingo Pinball Gameroom which are all Bally tables. That's not super surprising though because I highly doubt Zen would have any interest in that era/style of pinball.

[Pinballwiz45b]

Originally posted by Emig5m:

not some billion year old overplayed outdated crap...

No class, human.

Don't expect Stern until the time is right. https://playgamesmore.com/stern-feels-previous-licensed-virtual-pinball-versions-were-not-to-our-standards-but-open-to-exploring-again/

Originally posted by themazingness:

There seems to be an exception though, because there is the Bingo Pinball Gameroom which are all Bally tables. That's not super surprising though because I highly doubt Zen would have any interest in that era/style of pinball.

I don't see any problems with that existing, since bingo machines are functionally different compared to the games we all know and enjoy.

If they end up doing pinball recreations, with flippers, under the Bally label, that's where things get dicey.

[MikeFulton]

Originally posted by Paratech2008:

FX has the license to Williams / Bally tables. The Gottlieb and Stern tables are all that's left.

Farsight can't sell Williams and Bally tables anymore, but Zen can.

My point on the thread is there are FX customers who want those tables in FX, but it's fairly apparent @ 6 tables a year, not all of them will be available on FX.

The Bally/Williams tables didn't all disappear from The Pinball Arcade at the same time. I remember when the first wave of tables disappeared it sent me into a bit of a panic and I bought all the remaining tables because I was afraid they'd disappear too.

[Emig5m]

Why is everybody always so hung up on old Bally pins? Its like being hung up on the fox body mustangs. Has anyone been out in the real world and played a machine released in the past ten years? There are some great modern games that blow away the old ones.

[MikeFulton]

Originally posted by Pinballwiz45b:

No class, human.

Don't expect Stern until the time is right. https://playgamesmore.com/stern-feels-previous-licensed-virtual-pinball-versions-were-not-to-our-standards-but-open-to-exploring-again/

I read that article and it's got some points of confusion. The main issue is that the guy refers to the STERN PINBALL ARCADE program and says it's not up to their standards. That program was done by Farsight as a way to separate out the Stern tables from the other tables in The Pinball Arcade,

The problem is that it's not clear what the guy is talking about. The game play? The launcher? The tables and game play are more or less the same as The Pinball Arcade and personally, I always thought the game play (in both) was acceptable. Not perfect, but definitely in the ball park of where it should be.

But the STERN PINBALL ARCADE launcher is absolutely abysmal and it's not at all hard to imagine someone complaining about it.

[Emig5m]

Originally posted by mfulton:

Originally posted by Pinballwiz45b:

No class, human.

Don't expect Stern until the time is right. https://playgamesmore.com/stern-feels-previous-licensed-virtual-pinball-versions-were-not-to-our-standards-but-open-to-exploring-again/

I read that article and it's got some points of confusion. The main issue is that the guy refers to the STERN PINBALL ARCADE program and says it's not up to their standards. That program was done by Farsight as a way to separate out the Stern tables from the other tables in The Pinball Arcade,

The problem is that it's not clear what the guy is talking about. The game play? The launcher? The tables and game play are more or less the same as The Pinball Arcade and personally, I always thought the game play (in both) was acceptable. Not perfect, but definitely in the ball park of where it should be.

But the STERN PINBALL ARCADE launcher is absolutely abysmal and it's not at all hard to imagine someone complaining about it.

Stern Pinball Arcade runs like ♥♥♥♥. Studdery looking and input lag. Play the same tables in VPX and its light years better in both looks and play-ability.

[Paratech2008]

Originally posted by Emig5m:

Why is everybody always so hung up on old Bally pins? Its like being hung up on the fox body mustangs. Has anyone been out in the real world and played a machine released in the past ten years? There are some great modern games that blow away the old ones.

It's just many good tables are no longer available and many people may want to get them.

There's no guarantee Stern tables will be added and many people want arcade tables, more than the non arcade tables.

[themazingness]

Originally posted by Emig5m:

Why is everybody always so hung up on old Bally pins? Its like being hung up on the fox body mustangs. Has anyone been out in the real world and played a machine released in the past ten years? There are some great modern games that blow away the old ones.

Not everyone has the same preferences. I love EM tables, and I don't have a lot of Stern tables I'm big on, though I have a few favorites. And as much as I'd love to play some physical tables, I'm not in a position to spend a lot of time on them to really learn them. There's a reason I want official digital releases.

[Pinballwiz45b]

Originally posted by mfulton:

The problem is that it's not clear what the guy is talking about. The game play? The launcher? The tables and game play are more or less the same as The Pinball Arcade and personally, I always thought the game play (in both) was acceptable. Not perfect, but definitely in the ball park of where it should be.

But the STERN PINBALL ARCADE launcher is absolutely abysmal and it's not at all hard to imagine someone complaining about it.

There were some other things that happened with the Stern launcher, alongside being abysmal.

1) Farsight never got the video displays working. Anything SPIKE 2 is not possible at this time, unless you implement everything by hand. Until we see proof of concept of the latest games in action using SPIKE or any of the latest hardware, we won't see any recreations of that caliber.

2) Burnout. One of the people involved with the TPA project retired, and was one of the main guys driving the whole thing forward. Said retirement happened before the Bally/Williams fallout. The next set of releases had quite the gap -- after March 2018, not counting the ports from Stern Arcade, only two tables released in October 2018. With non-stop monthly releases all the way from February 2012, of course they're burnt!

Originally posted by Emig5m:

Why is everybody always so hung up on old Bally pins? Its like being hung up on the fox body mustangs. Has anyone been out in the real world and played a machine released in the past ten years? There are some great modern games that blow away the old ones.

Yes, I frequent an arcade with 8 of the 9 machines built since 2012. At least 2 of the games here are not very fun. Why games older than the 90's? 80's? 70's? They're unique and fun to play, that's why. You don't become a master solely by playing the new machines. There are tournaments out there that require you to learn how these older games play. Tap passing exists in Pinball FX. It's a real skill, and it's critical on games like Paragon.

Just because it's new and modern, doesn't mean it's great. Even Stern's games have duds.

[Emig5m]

Originally posted by Pinballwiz45b:

Originally posted by mfulton:

The problem is that it's not clear what the guy is talking about. The game play? The launcher? The tables and game play are more or less the same as The Pinball Arcade and personally, I always thought the game play (in both) was acceptable. Not perfect, but definitely in the ball park of where it should be.

But the STERN PINBALL ARCADE launcher is absolutely abysmal and it's not at all hard to imagine someone complaining about it.

There were some other things that happened with the Stern launcher, alongside being abysmal.

1) Farsight never got the video displays working. Anything SPIKE 2 is not possible at this time, unless you implement everything by hand. Until we see proof of concept of the latest games in action using SPIKE or any of the latest hardware, we won't see any recreations of that caliber.

2) Burnout. One of the people involved with the TPA project retired, and was one of the main guys driving the whole thing forward. Said retirement happened before the Bally/Williams fallout. The next set of releases had quite the gap -- after March 2018, not counting the ports from Stern Arcade, only two tables released in October 2018. With non-stop monthly releases all the way from February 2012, of course they're burnt!

Originally posted by Emig5m:

Why is everybody always so hung up on old Bally pins? Its like being hung up on the fox body mustangs. Has anyone been out in the real world and played a machine released in the past ten years? There are some great modern games that blow away the old ones.

Yes, I frequent an arcade with 8 of the 9 machines built since 2012. At least 2 of the games here are not very fun. Why games older than the 90's? 80's? 70's? They're unique and fun to play, that's why. You don't become a master solely by playing the new machines. There are tournaments out there that require you to learn how these older games play. Tap passing exists in Pinball FX. It's a real skill, and it's critical on games like Paragon.

Just because it's new and modern, doesn't mean it's great. Even Stern's games have duds.

Generally speaking a newer table will have much better sound, more interactive feedback with shaker motors, and there's absolutely some gameplay and theming gems out there like Metallica and AC/DC<--- these two are way more fun and exciting to play than any of the old school games maybe except for Cirqus Voltaire which is a great 90s table but generally speaking. Like you can't deny that seeing something like Foo Fighters in PinballFX would be a little refreshing than the same thing over and over again and over and over again... What gets me is the lack of effort to bring new tables to video games not that really the old ones should be forgotten about. What's the newest one that we ever got? 2016 Ghostbusters and then it disappeared from the store? Ghostbusters is an absolute greatly themed and great fun table to play with a fairly full playfield. I hate blank empty boring playfields with nothing much going on..... How about Jersey Jack Wizard of OZ? An absolute gem of a pinball machine... I get it... Gorgar... history... nostalgia... but doesn't compare to the modern more sophisticated games...