Nudge direction confusion

[CurseYouAll]

In the key mapping it says "Nudge to the Left / Nudge to the Right" but if you look at what happens on screen, the table is actually moving in the opposite direction - i.e. the nudge to the left button moves the table to the right.

Or am I drunk?

[Matt Beeching]

Probably not drunk as it's a frequent question. If you physically slap or nudge a table to the left side that force will be applied right.

If you still have that empty pint glass handy the same thing will happen - though I don't recommend it.

[CurseYouAll]

Yeah, what you say is how physics work :)

Zen wording is confusing though - should've been 'Nudge on the left / right' instead of 'to the left / right'.

[Matt Beeching]

Yeah that's fair argument, nudge cab/table (left/right) might be clearer. The problem is analog sticks though, you press those right to achieve the same as a left key.

Completely different control schemes as the analog has a centre and can be used both directions.

[Magnus]

Regardless of the terminology/perspective, I think it's reversed from what it was before. I had never changed those before and it worked as I expected until this update. After the update it seems backwards, so I reversed the controls and it feels normal again.

Not a big deal since it's configurable, but I think that might be what's getting some people.

[Matt Beeching]

Originally posted by Magnus:

Regardless of the terminology/perspective, I think it's reversed from what it was before. I had never changed those before and it worked as I expected until this update. After the update it seems backwards, so I reversed the controls and it feels normal again.

Not a big deal since it's configurable, but I think that might be what's getting some people.

On keyboard or controller? If something has changed happy to gather and submit, but I have not noticed and nobody on the Discord has mentioned this either.

Seems more likely they were user inverted and reset to default.

[Magnus]

Originally posted by Matt Beeching:

On keyboard or controller? If something has changed happy to gather and submit, but I have not noticed and nobody on the Discord has mentioned this either.

Seems more likely they were user inverted and reset to default.

Controller - the analog stick. I don't think I inverted it before, though I can't say definitively as it has been months. Let's just say the default now is the reverse of the way it was in FX3. Pushing the stick right should move the table right and pushing it left should move it left. (e.g., Opposite the way you want the ball to move as on a real table).

I've had to invert the controls (these are my settings, not the default) to make it work as it was in FX3 and as I think it was before this patch:

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3112740793

[Matt Beeching]

Originally posted by Magnus:

Controller - the analog stick. I don't think I inverted it before, though I can't say definitively as it has been months. Let's just say the default now is the reverse of the way it was in FX3. Pushing the stick right should move the table right and pushing it left should move it left. (e.g., Opposite the way you want the ball to move as on a real table).

You are correct, if I play with a pad using defaults it's definitely inverted at the moment.

This is the issue currently being described in the notes for Hotfix - 1.0.13 (103510): We have heard reports about “soft nudge” not working properly on tables, with controllers. As a temporary workaround, please assign the nudges to your D-pad. After this change, your analog stick should nudge as intended. We are working on a permanent fix for this issue.

If I set my controls as below the analog nudging works as expected.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3112937215

[76561197999637502]

There could be an argument. The D-pad, or Z and / used to nudge, could be interpreted.

Z, "left nudge", what is the convention here? Does this mean a left slap that pushes the table to the right. Os is this a table gab somehow that nudges the table to the left?

With the joystick i see it clearly. If i push the stick to the right, i expect the table to nudge to the right, corresponding to a nudge from left to right on a real table.

Also, can we talk about how the physics are reversed compared to TPA? In FX, if you nudge the table to the right, you see the table move right, the ball is influenced to go right.

In TPA this is the other way around. To save a straight down the middle and guide the ball towards the left flipper, you would nudge the table to the right.

How are things on a real table and who is right here? TPA or FX?

[Matt Beeching]

On a keyboard I'm 100% on pressing a left key to slap or nudge the cab from the left side.
On an analog stick I would press right, it makes no sense to push the stick left (cab is centre like the stick so force applied)

Definitely some level of preference here so choose whichever works best for you.

[MikeFulton]

Originally posted by CurseYouAll:

In the key mapping it says "Nudge to the Left / Nudge to the Right" but if you look at what happens on screen, the table is actually moving in the opposite direction - i.e. the nudge to the left button moves the table to the right.

Or am I drunk?

It's not nudge to the left or nudge to the right, it's nudge with your left hand or nudge with your right, like you had your hands on the sides of a real pinball machine.

If that's confusing, you can always map the controls backwards so they work how you expect.

[76561197999637502]

Originally posted by Matt Beeching:

On a keyboard I'm 100% on pressing a left key to slap or nudge the cab from the left side.

Just checked TPA. Left nudge keyboard button has the table moving to the left! Like you would slap the table with the right hand.

Setting the buttons to see the visual feedback is trivial If you like use the keyboard or D-pad to nudge. The problem is how the physics are set. How do you influence a SDTM ball in real life? TPA or FX logic?

A setting could help with this. "If table is nudged towards RIGHT, the ball is influenced to move LEFT/RIGHT". This way one would get the desired visual feedback plus the ball effect he wants.

[Matt Beeching]

Too many SDTM trajectories, sometime you may attempt a tip save with a nudge from either direction. It's just a table with flippers and you manipulate the ball around.

There's no hand of god facility to auto-save everything, it would never end and what's the point in that?

[76561197999637502]

The point stands. A nudge has an influence on the ball. Let's use a simple, middle, slow approaching SDTM ball. What would happen on a real table if you nudge the table to the right? Would the ball be influenced towards the left or the right flipper? There is no other object in it's path.

Right now, in my example, FX has the ball influenced towards the right flipper when you see the table moving to the right. This is consistent.

TPA has this reversed. Using the same example, to influence the STDM ball in my example towards the right flipper, you would left nudge and see the table move left.

Either TPA or FX has this physics logic wrong.