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PAPA Pinball has a series of flipper skills and tutorials that will apply to the newest physics model, but this is a great starting point for even the FX3/Normal settings:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r_7TQ6wRZdw
I recommend checking out the 3 free tables, since those have a physics toggle between Normal (the FX3 legacy model and is easier for newcomers) and Challenging (the newest model and allows for more advanced flipper skills).
If you're seeking out real pinball, there are great resources like https://pinballmap.com/ where you can (hopefully) find locations closest to you.
Any further questions, or replies, don't hesitate to do so.
For me the biggest issue is the flipper physics, not (necesarily) the ball physics. The flippers are so inconsistent. It doesn't feel like they're striking the ball so much as slinging them. They put so much english on the ball that you get these weird ball behaviors. I've played my fair share of rl pinball and Zen's physic's just do not ring true at all.
You'd think with the newer Unreal engine they'd have figure this out by now.
That's given me something to think about, you raise a good point. I've been experimenting with the slow-motion power; somehow I feel like the flippers need just a bit more fine-tuning in regards to the movements.
When the flipper is lowered, it's like there's a constant movement speed, instead of a free-fall motion, before the jitter at the resting point.
On the other hand, watching footage between the main flipper and the upper flippers, there is impact where the ball "slows down" the flipper, sometimes resulting in the upper flipper finishing the movement first compared to the main flipper at the bottom.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YKYhVn3RpxQ
The Slow Mo Guys have a really good video showcasing some of these movements in action, but I'd really like to see full-playfield slow-motion footage to compare with the above. Anyway, I'm certain Zen has tech similar to the below:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tmg5WOvPKpU
Physics are 100% a welcome conversation, regardless, and always room for improvement. Even Timeshock's set of physics was one-upped by Big Race USA, and that's a monster of a ruleset.
Real flippers don't freefall to the dead position. They are spring loaded, so they drop faster than "freefall".
Zen Williams remakes all feel much like a real machine, but with weak flipper coils and worn flipper springs. The weak coil feel is why the flippers don't feel quite as punchy as they should and the worn or stretched spring feel is why drop catches are harder to make and less reliable in Pin FX than they are the real thing. Drop catching on a machine with worn flipper springs results in exactly the same behaviour you see on Pin FX, which makes it precariously unreliable to do at certain speeds and angles.
If Zen model their remakes on actual machines (I read that they do) then it seems to me those machines could use a thorough service before Zen gets anywhere near it. Ideally flipper coils, links and springs should all be replaced with new. That way Zen will have a better idea of how these things felt when you pulled them out of the box.
In any case, I agree with you and Rex that the flipper behaviour could use some closer examination and tweaking. It's close to the real thing but there's plenty of room for improvement.
Thanks for the correction. I should have known better, because I worked on the machines at the arcade where I'm located! Without the spring, they don't reset back to resting position.
Back to the point, that's why I was relating more to the "free-fall"-like movement. Realistically, it's not a constant speed, but the flipper bat looks like it's accelerating (to an extent) to the resting point, and likewise with the mechanism under the wood.
I was looking in-game at how the flipper is moving, using the slow-motion power. It's an original, but it mirrors how the flippers behave on Williams.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryBi68miOeg
Almost all tables behave in this manner. However, there's one thing I managed to catch on Terraforming Mars: The upper flipper looks like it's behaving differently compared to the main two flippers when lowering to the resting position. I think they're on the right track (and I could very well be wrong with this), but from here, that upper flipper needs a bit less bounce when arriving back to its resting point. Frame-by-frame, I could almost completely see the the entire rubber on the tip of the flipper, almost completely to the right of the post.
I'd really like to see how this new flipper feels on a separate build.
The flipper-ball interactions should be fine for the most part, but again, could use some improvement:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hD6G88GZ_W4
"Ball occasionally jumps over flipper and drains instead of bouncing off."
"Sometimes the ball moves off the flipper like it's stuck in quicksand."
"It seems like the ball sometimes speeds up when going from side to side."
These are just examples (or are they?) of things that could be traced back to the physics model.
Complex or not, I swear there was a pinball sim over 20 years ago that replicated a speeding ball bouncing off your flipper (if you hit it just right) and smacking against the glass, complete with fairly accurate sound effect.
I've got so many old PC pinball sims in boxes all over the house from back then that I can't for the life of me remember which sim it was. I think it was only one sim that did it, and when I first experienced it, my mind was blown.
But again, I can't remember which sim it was, or if that effect was actually physics-based or just something that was programmed to happen when certain values were met. I suspect the latter, but regardless, it was a pretty convincing effect, and I would think that these days, it wouldn't be that difficult to replicate in an actual physics model.
Timeshock's ball felt like it was glued to the playfield 99% of the time. Big Race USA's ball was a bit bouncier and it allowed for quite a bit of air time. I remember it hitting glass the first time while playing it on the Playstation and it surprised me.
I think BRUSA was the first to do this.
I'm not looking to be good or get high scores, just hit a ball around, and relive the 90's-00's when tables actually existed (with highlights being The Addams Family and Star Trek Next Generation). I appreciate that they were specifically designed to eat coins, but digital platforms have the unique property of being fully customisable, and there's no good reason why I should feel cheated playing a game that I "own".
I'm only here because I bought the My Little Pony table, and as if by design, that table feels fun and easy to play, with very little BS. The Next Generation table, on the other hand, I can barely keep the ball in play for 20 seconds before it drops dead centre. I make no excuses, but as someone with autism, I find the highly decorated backgrounds and flashing lights of many tables extremely distracting, to the point that I visually lose the ball, or can't parse depth in 3D space. I abhor multi-ball for this very reason, and spend the entire time desperately trying to keep balls out of the gutter than actually aiming, which always ends with a moshpit by the bumpers. I also find that many of my shots consistently hit "dead points" on the table, scoring nothing and going nowhere; and don't get me started on how visually overwhelming it is trying to watch the dot matrix for table objectives while also playing, so I often achieve nothing (I have no idea how to make things happen on Jaws). I can't even have the dot matrix in the centre of the screen when I'm playing events, as the ugly FX UI covers half the table below it. In contrast to many FX and Williams tables, the MLP table is clean and clearly signposted, and I couldn't be happier (besides getting the original cast back for VOs).
I think I was specific enough for someone who has little to no basis for comparison (at least not in the last couple of decades). I said the ball felt like lead, and that's what I meant. It drops extremely quickly, like the table is at a 45 degree angle, making even split-second reactions too slow as if the ball is drawn to the gutter like a black hole.
I also mentioned how impossible angles are very common, feeling like engineered failures, rather than pure physics (any digital engine will never have true physics, making it all the easier to assume background manipulation). This isn't helped by the poor selection of barely differing POVs. Why is there no top-down angle? The only camera that shows the top of a board closely also can't follow the ball fast enough as it drops back, making bumper timing pure guesswork.
I'm here for a good time, not a long time; and having hyper-realistic difficulty and punishing physics that only cater to experts will have casual players bounce off like the springy bumpers. Add a "easy mode" with a lighter ball that isn't recorded on leaderboards, or an option to run at 90% speed, or something. Experts can have their own little competitive niche, and that has been catered to even more with the "hard modes", so let the casuals have fun too. I dunno, it's all very specific to each table in terms of signposting and over-stimulation, but I maintain that the ball feels unnaturally heavy.
Quite a bit to unpack here! I'll do my best to boil all this down.
Absolutely nothing wrong with taking this stance either, but customizing how a pinball game is set up, is a big learning curve in itself. Playfield pitch is one of them, and even a half a degree change can make a big impact on how a game plays. On Williams games specifically, note the difference on how the ball behaves between Classic and Pro. It'd be great if we had a Custom mode on all tables where we set our own custom game parameters, Operator Menu included. Each game has its own manual, even on the newest machines built today, so it takes some getting used to customizing your own play experience.
MLP is 100% built with newcomers in mind, based on what I could see from the table guide. Star Trek TNG, not so much, even though the Williams room isn't flashy. As for the lead ball scenario, quick rebounds off of the ball hitting a post can happen like that in real life as well, not to mention a failed ramp shot. Know that ramps in real life are steeper than the pitch set on the playfield, and Pinball Arcade's ramps in the early days tended to be quite floaty and vacuum-like on their recreations. The Pro Pinball series back in late 1990's still hold very well today.
Re: Multiball, that was a direct result of video games in the first place. Designers were forced to adapt to the exponentially growing popularity of video games back in the 80's, so they had to get creative to get players back into pinball and away from the screen. Multiball was one of the many things. Know that many tables prior to 1980 had no multiball mode of any kind. Pinball is a 93 year old game, and it has a very rich history from its beginnings here in America. It has an older history prior to that -- Bagetelle in European countries. Heck, new machines are still being built today, and as always, check the Pinball Map for locations nearest you.
RE: Easier/casual physics settings: We'll receive them on the rest of the catalog in due time. I have a feeling we'll be seeing this applied based on the AtGames and Switch FX catalog next, meaning STTNG is coming up.
Much of what pinball is, is rules memorization, playfield map recognition, and following which shots immediately light up on the field. If you know your rules to a game, all you really need to do is keep an eye on the ball, and only look up at the display when you absolutely need to. Light sequences are only temporary and shouldn't detract from focusing on what shots you need, based on what mode you're in. Lights/sounds, on the other hand, can be great visual indicators of where/when a ball will eject from a scoop or saucer, so you're not surprised when a ball suddenly pops back out into play.
Top-down angles and landscape monitors...don't really go well, from personal experience. It depends on quite a few factors; the 2D pinball titles, such as Dreams and Fantasies, work well here. Timeshock, on the other hand, not so much on a 4:3 orientation. Top-down results in a small playfield area, and the ball can zip around on fast shots. It's difficult to get a read on the side ramp after shooting the spinner. I'm not certain what camera you use, but View 2 works the best for me, personally.
https://cdn.mobygames.com/screenshots/10357628-pro-pinball-timeshock-dos-viewing-mode-4.jpg
Regarding your autism and conditions, you can do this! Below is a story of Robert Gagno, who, despite autism, became the world champion.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4CPPh-NCRHA
Let me try this again...
I'm not saying there's nothing wrong with the game's physics or that you're imagining things. I have my own list of things on one table or another that I don't think work the way they should.
What I'm saying is that your descriptions, i.e. "balls feel like lead", are not very useful when it comes to identifying the cause. That example is very general, and it's subjective and may not mean the same thing to everyone.
If you said, "On the XYZ table, when the ball moves from point X to point Y, it accelerates like it was rolling down a 45 degree slope. This occurs intermittently, not every time."-- that is an objective description that should mean the same thing to anybody.
More importantly, this description provides Zen with a place to look so they can see what you're talking about. If they can't easily see the problem and reproduce it themselves, it's likely never going to be fixed.
So... you don't actually want anything to get fixed. You just want to complain. Okay! I get that now.