No more Zen originals for me.

[Takise]

First of all, let me say that this is not a criticism, just my private feeling.

Yesterday I played the original table from VPV, Die Hard Trilogy and I realized what I was missing in the Zen originals and I couldn't quite pinpoint it before.

I miss the setting that makes me feel like I'm playing real pinball.
I think Zen has created a lot of great original designs that lack a sense of visual realism.

I won't go into detail about specific tables from the past.
But for example, if the latest tables from the M series took on visual realism like Die Hard Trilogy and the cartoon tables visually came closer to Sponge Bobs Bikini Bottom and the futuristic Mars, by the way, one of my favorite tables, went in the direction of Blood Machines... then I would feel that we have dealing with the true evolution of FX.

A table created by a handful of time-constrained amateurs using an old, archaic editor made me feel like I was playing electronic pinball in the 21st century.

Simply on a large screen in 4k at 120hz you get the feeling of playing real pinball and it is a truly breathtaking experience.

The last time I had this was when I played Pro Pinball Timeshock ages ago.

So Zen, why, when you have specialist hardware and software, do you not use the power?

I'm staying true to your Williams series and I'm looking forward to more.

[Junker-2047-]

Since he didn't answer your question, I will try to.

Die Hard Trilogy is a pinball table that was recently released by Vpin Workshop (VPW). They are a group of enthusiasts that release high quality (best in class. Better than FX) virtual tables for the Visual Pinball X (VPX) platform. VPX is a free to play pinball platform that was created by fans and supported by fans with an absolute ton of real world and original tables. It is especially popular with players that use cabinets because it supports an array of side programs for DMDs, plungers, shakers, SSF feedback, animated backglasses, movies... you name it. The downside is VPX and all the side apps is far from plug and play and tinkering with all of it, setting up tables, etc an easily become a part time job. I used to tinker a lot and, honestly, I tinkered more than I played but I enjoyed it.

I haven't touched it in a while and I'm dreading going back and updating everything, figuring out what's new, etc. You see, someone might release a table that has all kinds of dependencies that you need to download, calibrate, etc. It gets overwhelming fast. It's very rewarding though and the gaming experiences you can get from fans doing stuff in their free time is downright jawdropping. These tables are no joke and it makes you wonder about the skills/capabilities of the paid employees at Zen if fans are outclassing them in their free time with a free product.

Have no idea what VPV is. Might be a typo.

[p1nbal1]

I would re-buy all the Zen originals again, in a second, if they did a sim version similar to vpx/vpw’s tables. Really like the new star wars tables from Zen. If they had a sim/realistic version value would 10x for me. Would pay $29 per table. Maybe they could have pinball m, fx, and pinball sfx. (sfx for new sim style tables similar to vpx)

[MikeFulton]

Origineel geplaatst door Junker-2047-:

Since he didn't answer your question, I will try to.

Die Hard Trilogy is a pinball table that was recently released by Vpin Workshop (VPW). They are a group of enthusiasts that release high quality (best in class. Better than FX) virtual tables for the Visual Pinball X (VPX) platform. VPX is a free to play pinball platform that was created by fans and supported by fans with an absolute ton of real world and original tables. It is especially popular with players that use cabinets because it supports an array of side programs for DMDs, plungers, shakers, SSF feedback, animated backglasses, movies... you name it. The downside is VPX and all the side apps is far from plug and play and tinkering with all of it, setting up tables, etc an easily become a part time job. I used to tinker a lot and, honestly, I tinkered more than I played but I enjoyed it.

I haven't touched it in a while and I'm dreading going back and updating everything, figuring out what's new, etc. You see, someone might release a table that has all kinds of dependencies that you need to download, calibrate, etc. It gets overwhelming fast. It's very rewarding though and the gaming experiences you can get from fans doing stuff in their free time is downright jawdropping. These tables are no joke and it makes you wonder about the skills/capabilities of the paid employees at Zen if fans are outclassing them in their free time with a free product.

Have no idea what VPV is. Might be a typo.

Thanks for the info... very helpul!

[Full_Throttle_F14]

A golden era is what VPX is experiencing the past year or so. Great contributions of the community being pumped out.

For those new to It, it does require your upmost attention and patience for a first time setup. Plenty of articles and video tutorials to help you out. Honestly, thank God for video tutorials as it has saved me headaches and time.

[GenevaSpur]

As PFX is broken on my cabinet (nudge = tilt) I found myself going to VPX for the first time. As mentioned, it took a lot of time to get it working and set it up to my taste, but this is one step above. My prefered feature is that you can set up the view exactly as you wish, this really changes the experience. Zen should take notice.
I still like the PFX tables though, and the fact you can compete with others.

[Takise]

Merry Christmas all, guys.

[solamon77]

I got to admit, and I know I'm in the minority on this one, but the videogameyness (not a real word, but I hope you get what I'm saying) is the exact thing I like about PFX. Aside from on the Williams tables, I don't think they should be aiming for a realistic/simulation feel. I would love to see them go further in the video game direction. Really explore the kind of things you could never do on a real world table. They should embrace their unique position better.

Like how on the new Star Trek Discovery table the ball warps from one area to the next and has a Spore Drive like effect when doing so. The old Portal table did the same thing. That stuff is so cool! Or the 3d characters and special effects... amazing!

I would love to see them get more distant from the arcade mindset like how video games switched from a quarter eating mentality to a long form gameplay mentality during the rise of early consoles. Their Necrodancer table was something of a revolution in thinking for me. You'd never see a table like this in the arcades. Maybe more tables should switch to a health system to decide when the game ends instead of a "number of balls" system.

[Dal420]

Origineel geplaatst door Takise:

Merry Christmas all, guys.

Merry Christmas!

[FiatFan83]

I've never cared for the fantasy or "Original" tables from any dev, I only want virtual versions of the real tables I know and love. TPA was a godsend when it was active, and I keep a cracked Android version around to always fall back on. I've tried the earlier versions of what is now VPX and just never got the hang of the setup process. Based on what some of you are saying about community support, I think I'll check out this latest version. I've pumped money into PFX on here, but I understand that licensing will likely prevent this title from ever having as robust a library as TPA had, and even that had tables missing.

[Eville Byron]

Origineel geplaatst door Takise:

Origineel geplaatst door Dal420:

VPV?
YMMV?
VPX?
What language are you people talking?

VPW - VPinWorkshop, group of guys making pinball tables for VPX
VPX - Visual Pinball 10, free software with editor to play and design digital pinball tables

YMMV...have no idea what this mean :)))

YMMV, Your Mileage May Vary. To acknowledge that an opinion is purely subjective.

[Yakass]

I don't buy Zen originals because it simply doesn't feel like pinball. I don't care so much if the designs don't look like real tables and I actually like the idea of embracing the capabilities of video gamey stuff within pinball, but the ball and flippers do not behave like a real ball and flippers would on a pinball machine.

The promise of "pro physics" for originals was one of the main things that I bought into fx for, but it turned out to be fake news.

Not that any of this bothers me because I barely have enough time to play the Williams tables, which do a much better job of simulating the pinball experience

[Fwiler]

The issue is all in lighting. The lighting has always been bland and even across the table which makes it look unrealistic. Metal parts and rails have no reflection. No dark shadows anywhere. All you have to do is take a picture of a real pinball table and then compare the colors, contrast, and lighting to any zen table. And no, ray tracing won't help if you don't know where to put light sources in the first place.

[FoxyLoxy]

Origineel geplaatst door Fwiler:

The issue is all in lighting.

Gotta agree.

PFX can look great. Just look at TOTAN.

And then compare it with, say, Zen's new Star Trek games. The latter look flat. They don't actually look like pinball tables. They look like video games which happen to use pinball elements, IMO.

[♚™]

This was what was recommended a decade ago to make the tables more mechanical and not cartoony because the appeal of pinball is the mechanical ingenuity of the tables. So instead of having a guy fly around the screen which isn't realistic just make him into a stiff toy figure that moves from a mechanical switch. Problem solved.

I think they tried to change their ways with the latest Star Wars table where they have the 4 action figure toys encased in the middle

[Junior]

i like some fantasy pinball tables like the skyrim one, but overall williams are much better yes, i would say i like majority of willians tables, theres afew i don't like but the majority i do, lets say i like 80% of then, however the Zen tables its like i like just 5% and that being very nice because theres just two tables i like btw. i don't mind much the fantasy but what i dislike the most is the ball physics it don't feel fun.