"Why do we keep forgiving Double Fine?" --GamesRadar

[Bob Barker]

http://www.gamesradar.com/why-do-we-keep-forgiving-double-fine/

This was just released, seems relevant.

[suejak]

Interesting. We need more critical articles like this.

I love Tim Schafer and Tim Schafer's writing, but we do need to call it straight too. Broken Age was poorly managed and not what the Kickstarter advertised.

Anyway, I got my refund today, so I've settled my direct issues with the company.

[bibbis]

Originally posted by suejak:

Interesting. We need more critical articles like this.

I love Tim Schafer and Tim Schafer's writing, but we do need to call it straight too. Broken Age was poorly managed and not what the Kickstarter advertised.

Anyway, I got my refund today, so I've settled my direct issues with the company.

I've been a bit disappointed in Tim lately for some strange things he's done, but I'm still so incredibly tired of people claiming that Broken Age was "poorly managed" or "didn't give us what they promised" or "was a complete rip-off".

Was it not enough of them to tell us, straight out, before even BEGINNING, that this propject MIGHT FLOP?
That it might only turn into a learning experience for everyone involved, recorded into a documentary showing all the things they did right and did wrong?

How much CLEARER do they have to be, so that you will UNDRSTAND KICKSTARTING?
This completely blows my mind that people still DON'T UNDERSTAND how it works, and that there is ALWAYS. A. RISK.
Especially when they, literally, tell you straight out before hand.

[Bob Barker]

Originally posted by bibbis:

Originally posted by suejak:

Interesting. We need more critical articles like this.

I love Tim Schafer and Tim Schafer's writing, but we do need to call it straight too. Broken Age was poorly managed and not what the Kickstarter advertised.

Anyway, I got my refund today, so I've settled my direct issues with the company.

I've been a bit disappointed in Tim lately for some strange things he's done, but I'm still so incredibly tired of people claiming that Broken Age was "poorly managed" or "didn't give us what they promised" or "was a complete rip-off".

Was it not enough of them to tell us, straight out, before even BEGINNING, that this propject MIGHT FLOP?
That it might only turn into a learning experience for everyone involved, recorded into a documentary showing all the things they did right and did wrong?

How much CLEARER do they have to be, so that you will UNDRSTAND KICKSTARTING?
This completely blows my mind that people still DON'T UNDERSTAND how it works, and that there is ALWAYS. A. RISK.
Especially when they, literally, tell you straight out before hand.

The article equally mentions Steam Early Access as well as Kickstarter, if not more.

I feel the cult of personality criticism is warranted. The examples just provide situations to contrast against other developers. I see a lot of hand-wavy dismissals of criticism towards Double Fine from people with nostalgia colored glasses.

[wobbles]

Wow. That article was so subjective, it could have been found in someone's personal journal. The writer is obviously upset, but I don't think his reasonings behind wanting to share his opinions warranted the article being published to the public by a reputable gaming news outlet.

I understand the frustrations of the author, but there are some very important things that need to be said here in regards to his argument points.

First, slamming Double Fine for delaying their games and going over budget seems odd, as if there's a double-standard against them. Almost every game being produced these days is delayed (sometimes multiple times over) and they almost always go over budget. These occurrences are nothing new and have been around since the dawn of video games, and they will most likely continue to keep happening. And just because Double Fine’s recent games are being funded by Kickstarter, does not mean they are immune to the trials and tribulations of that particular medium.

Lately, It seems as though many individuals (mainly Kickstarter backers) are taking the decisions of how Double Fine runs its company, a little too personally. This is of course understandable, given that people are paying for the product BEFORE it's released, rather than the other way around. But what doesn't help the situation is that the public eye is able to see the inner workings of Double Fine through the Broken Age documentaries. The world is able to see how their products are being made, opening the company up for endless scrutiny.
But in a perfect word, Double Fine should actually be praised for their willingness to be so open with the public, especially since very few companies in the world openly share every nitty-gritty detail. That’s been a bold decision, but it shows that the company is serious when it comes to dealing with their customer’s dollars so directly.

In the end, it's important to understand that the lanscape for video games is changing. Every aspect of the medium is evolving, from the initial idea for a game, all the way to how the finished product is being delivered to the public. And as with any change, there are always some bumpy roads. But those roads are essential; they help us figure out what works, and what doesn't. The Kickstarter funded game, Broken Age, has definitely seem some bumpy roads, but the finished product is a light at the end of the tunnel. The game is more than just another way for the studio to make a buck. It’s something that some very talented and hardworking creators believe in with their hearts, and why they have dedicated so many years to it.
It’s not always easy or pretty to walk the road less traveled, but for the sake of pushing the envelope to new limits and blazing your own trail, it’s worth it.

I think readers should take this article with a grain of salt. It’s easy to take things personal, especially when there’s money involved, but we need to keep our heads and stay cool. The author of the article might have gotten a better way to deal with his frustrations by sending his article directly to Double Fine to voice his personal opinion. The only thing this public post is doing is creating animosity by singling out one developer when the entire industry is guilty of the same thing.

[Mendacious Calamity]

Originally posted by Bob Barker:

http://www.gamesradar.com/why-do-we-keep-forgiving-double-fine/

This was just released, seems relevant.

I quite like the reply on another site, "We DON'T keep forgiving Double Fine" which essentially goes on to say, "This article reckons we keep forgiving them but have you not seen how the internet reacted to their various ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥? We have NOT forgiven them."

http://gamasutra.com/blogs/RobertFearon/20150421/241614/We_dont_keep_forgiving_Double_Fine.php

DF9 is in the past now. Anyone who ever had an interest in it or heaven forbid spent money on it won't forget what a complete failure it was. In fact, I was most offended not by them shutting it down, nor even the misleading-at-best "we don't plan to abandon it overnight!" statement, but the fact that after putting out 1.0 they tried to claim they'd done what they'd planned to do and isn't it spiffy considering?

No guys, it's not. If you can delude yourselves into thinking that, fine, but don't insult us.

However, I can move on, as they have. We'll all go into future DF purchases with our eyes wide open.

[Mendacious Calamity]

Originally posted by bibbis:

Originally posted by suejak:

Interesting. We need more critical articles like this.

I love Tim Schafer and Tim Schafer's writing, but we do need to call it straight too. Broken Age was poorly managed and not what the Kickstarter advertised.

Anyway, I got my refund today, so I've settled my direct issues with the company.

I've been a bit disappointed in Tim lately for some strange things he's done, but I'm still so incredibly tired of people claiming that Broken Age was "poorly managed" or "didn't give us what they promised" or "was a complete rip-off".

Was it not enough of them to tell us, straight out, before even BEGINNING, that this propject MIGHT FLOP?
That it might only turn into a learning experience for everyone involved, recorded into a documentary showing all the things they did right and did wrong?

How much CLEARER do they have to be, so that you will UNDRSTAND KICKSTARTING?
This completely blows my mind that people still DON'T UNDERSTAND how it works, and that there is ALWAYS. A. RISK.
Especially when they, literally, tell you straight out before hand.

I agree with all of bibbis's post here, on the topic of Broken Age.

[Bob Barker]

It's awfully easy to defend Double Fine when you hand wave criticism as "well other people have done that", or "well that was a isolated incident". The fact of the matter remains Double Fine and Tim Schafer has a significant cult of personality surrounding them, resulting in child gloves being worn whenever they're spoken about in the media.

The worst example, Spacebase DF9 was barely covered and when it was it was downplayed. I recall trying to get Patrick Klepek to mention the abandonment when it happened. It got a brief mention and a comment about it being "not a big deal". When Danny O'Dwyer interviewed Tim Schafer and brought up Spacebase DF9 the line of questioning ended there with Tim Schafer simply saying "well you know we're experimenting".

Jason Schreier seemed angry that anyone would even dare call out the special treatment of Double Fine and posted that rebuttal article on twitter *and* NeoGAF and probably had it linked on his own website. Patrick Klepek now works with Jason Schreier, I guess apologists work well together.

Not to mention the rebuttal article seems like an apologists rantings, and doesn't actually fit the title "we don't forgive Double Fine" because clearly the author is wearing his blinders or has already provided Double Fine a blank cheque of forgiveness.

This alone makes the article questioning the cult of personality valid.

[sonicking2004]

Personally, I'm not sure what all of you haters are going on about. My one and only experience with Double Fine has been this game Broken Age, and while I was as disappointed as anyone about the delay of Part 2 (i.e. REAL disappointed), it turns out that my patience, as well as that of everyone else who didn't call them crooks or hacks and demanded a refund, is about to be rewarded.

The full version of Broken Age is going to be released on April 28th, which is in less than a week. Not only will the rest of the game be available for download then, but also it have a version you can pick up at retail outlets. I've even read that there will be versions available for the PS3 and the Vita (and, as a consequence, Playstation TV).

Now yes they had problems they had to struggle with, that much is clear. However, with Game Informer having reviewed Part 2 and giving it such a high rating, I have a feeling I'll be too busy having fun playing it to bother checking to see what new venom you guys are spewing next. So don't shed any tears, I'm sure that it won't be long before you have something new to foam at the mouth about. See you later.

[Bob Barker]

Originally posted by sonicking2004:

Personally, I'm not sure what all of you haters are going on about. My one and only experience with Double Fine has been this game Broken Age, and while I was as disappointed as anyone about the delay of Part 2 (i.e. REAL disappointed), it turns out that my patience, as well as that of everyone else who didn't call them crooks or hacks and demanded a refund, is about to be rewarded.

The full version of Broken Age is going to be released on April 28th, which is in less than a week. Not only will the rest of the game be available for download then, but also it have a version you can pick up at retail outlets. I've even read that there will be versions available for the PS3 and the Vita (and, as a consequence, Playstation TV).

Now yes they had problems they had to struggle with, that much is clear. However, with Game Informer having reviewed Part 2 and giving it such a high rating, I have a feeling I'll be too busy having fun playing it to bother checking to see what new venom you guys are spewing next. So don't shed any tears, I'm sure that it won't be long before you have something new to foam at the mouth about. See you later.

>I'm okay with it, so you should be too
>personal insults
You could at least try to have a discussion.

[Mendacious Calamity]

Originally posted by sonicking2004:

Personally, I'm not sure what all of you haters are going on about. My one and only experience with Double Fine has been this game Broken Age, and while I was as disappointed as anyone about the delay of Part 2 (i.e. REAL disappointed), it turns out that my patience, as well as that of everyone else who didn't call them crooks or hacks and demanded a refund, is about to be rewarded.

The full version of Broken Age is going to be released on April 28th, which is in less than a week. Not only will the rest of the game be available for download then, but also it have a version you can pick up at retail outlets. I've even read that there will be versions available for the PS3 and the Vita (and, as a consequence, Playstation TV).

Now yes they had problems they had to struggle with, that much is clear. However, with Game Informer having reviewed Part 2 and giving it such a high rating, I have a feeling I'll be too busy having fun playing it to bother checking to see what new venom you guys are spewing next. So don't shed any tears, I'm sure that it won't be long before you have something new to foam at the mouth about. See you later.

By your own admission you haven't got a clue what we're talking about as this is your only experience with them and, frankly, this game isn't the problem.

Probably not going to go well if you try and get involved in a discussion you've got literally nothing invested in.

[bibbis]

Originally posted by DigitalInvestor:

By your own admission you haven't got a clue what we're talking about as this is your only experience with them and, frankly, this game isn't the problem.

Probably not going to go well if you try and get involved in a discussion you've got literally nothing invested in.

Huh?
How can this game be irrelevant if it's constantly used as the primary example in the critique against DF?

I know there are more complaints about other games too, but I mean... We are currently in the BROKEN AGE FORUM.
What does that tell you?

[Bob Barker]

Originally posted by bibbis:

Originally posted by DigitalInvestor:

By your own admission you haven't got a clue what we're talking about as this is your only experience with them and, frankly, this game isn't the problem.

Probably not going to go well if you try and get involved in a discussion you've got literally nothing invested in.

Huh?
How can this game be irrelevant if it's constantly used as the primary example in the critique against DF?

I know there are more complaints about other games too, but I mean... We are currently in the BROKEN AGE FORUM.
What does that tell you?

It's a discussion about Double Fine and Tim Schafer. It's as relevant here as it is in any other Double Fine game forum, if not more so since Tim Schafer is personally working on Broken Age.

[bibbis]

Originally posted by Bob Barker:

Originally posted by bibbis:

Huh?
How can this game be irrelevant if it's constantly used as the primary example in the critique against DF?

I know there are more complaints about other games too, but I mean... We are currently in the BROKEN AGE FORUM.
What does that tell you?

It's a discussion about Double Fine and Tim Schafer. It's as relevant here as it is in any other Double Fine game forum, if not more so since Tim Schafer is personally working on Broken Age.

Yeah, that's pretty much what I said?

[Bob Barker]

Originally posted by bibbis:

Originally posted by Bob Barker:

It's a discussion about Double Fine and Tim Schafer. It's as relevant here as it is in any other Double Fine game forum, if not more so since Tim Schafer is personally working on Broken Age.

Yeah, that's pretty much what I said?

Sorry I misread you, my bad.

[Mendacious Calamity]

Originally posted by bibbis:

Originally posted by DigitalInvestor:

By your own admission you haven't got a clue what we're talking about as this is your only experience with them and, frankly, this game isn't the problem.

Probably not going to go well if you try and get involved in a discussion you've got literally nothing invested in.

Huh?
How can this game be irrelevant if it's constantly used as the primary example in the critique against DF?

Because it's not. SpaceBase DF9 is. There's practically no reason to constantly harp on about DF if this is your only frame of reference, as nothing particularly terrible happened with Broken Age. Unless you count having entirely unrealistic expectations about how long games take to make. Yawn.