Remove the ability to bypass puzzles, OR give everyone a similar ability

[Henpemaz]

This game is full of puzzles that require multiple players to open, like the 2-player doors and 4-player doors, with rewards locked behind. Chibis however can glitch out-of-bounds and bypass most of these puzzles, going straight for the reward.

On their perspective, great, they do not have to wait for other players. But the other players still have to wait, and have to wait in fact even more because chibis will then rarely will stop to help, and will never stop to wait for help from another player because they don't have to, so the next player will always find a closed door and nobody there already to help.

This creates not only a form of passive aggression but straight up gives the ability for chibis to be toxic, avoiding to help other players (or players outside of their friends group) on purpose, while still getting the puzzle rewards for them and their friends.

Right now we also see lots of players using other exploits to get to rewards solo (📸) because the wait times for said puzzles are sometimes just ridiculous, which only increases the problem for players who aren't aware of the exploits or aren't willing to use them, because most players don't wait by the puzzle doors, they just bypass them, meaning you are very likely to find a closed door with nobody there already.

In the long term, this other exploit should be patched out as well, because it increases the problem of not finding help for the players that do not use the exploit. Or alternatively it could be embraced and officialized as the way everyone can bypass a puzzle, just it needs to be something that even new players become aware of, otherwise they'll be the ones waiting for someone forever because everyone else skips puzzles.

[RedPamba]

I think you might care a lil too much

[The_Outsider]

As a solo player, I don't have to chibi for really anything. And I did earn the chibi mask, I just use it to look cute.

Many kind players leave moments in front of the puzzles. These are visible as dots or look like mini lamps.

It enables the camera which you click on and the doors will open by themselves.

The only puzzles that I cannot use this on are two.

One is in the vault right next to the big platform

The second is in the Prairie and requires multiple people.

I had to learn this as everyone else already has friends, is currently an uber, or is a couple.

[Matsutake]

You can just buy chibi mask for hearts, gates and doors are bugged most of the time and don't open. I doubt tgc is gonna fix all these bugs in the next future, therefore people use glitches. Besides you can just google how to glitch through, sometimes it works even without chibi mask. No hate <3

[Henpemaz]

I do know my way around all doors in the game, the concern I have is for the new players who are left waiting alone on doors that nobody else stops at. Doors that they can't open alone.

[The_Outsider]

Originally posted by Henpemaz:

I do know my way around all doors in the game, the concern I have is for the new players who are left waiting alone on doors that nobody else stops at. Doors that they can't open alone.

Define new.

Because I've only been playing for two months.

[Henpemaz]

New as in picked up the game this week and is in their 1st or 2nd time through the areas, and might drop the game if it finds it too frustrating.

[The_Outsider]

Originally posted by Henpemaz:

New as in picked up the game this week and is in their 1st or 2nd time through the areas, and might drop the game if it finds it too frustrating.

Ok then I am sorry I couldn't help.

I just thought my suggestion was helpful.

Moments/shared spaces placed by other players did help me get through doors, I wasn't making that up.

I will just leave now.

[D:\side\]

A relatively veteran player here (since 2020), only discovered moments and shared spaces near the doors recently and do confirm they're pretty much in all places worth… well, I guess, technically, breaking into.

Some of it feels like cheating, to be honest. The camera probably shouldn't be capable of atracting wax near the camera position to the player standing far away, but it does. Nor should it be considered for failsafes that unlock doors from the inside. It's convenient, it's cooperation, but it seems to defeat the whole point of the normal unlock methods.

Some of it actually is blatant cheating, and this system kinda encourages it. Ever seen moments where the camera just teleports to a faraway point of interest, like a candle bunch or a transition between locations? (Some of it would seem to be possible through careful coordination between Skykids with Warp unlocked, but I'm skeptical it's all there is.)

Shortcuts though shared spaces and chibi falling are a consequence of the way in-game physics works, there is no easy fix for it unfortunately. But also consider this: if what you call "toxic players" complete everything themselves and go about their way, they probably leave your vicinity faster, leaving you with move a cooperative bunch. Without this way for them to rush through they would be hurrying others.

So-o… meh. Yeah, some of it seems kinda broken, but it helps with otherwise more tedious parts of the game that aren't that enjoyable after dozens/hundreds/thousands of visits. I'd expect some of it to be patched out though.

[Henpemaz]

Just to better picture what is the issue I'm referring to, lets imagine a few scenarios and look at how long people have to wait to open a 4-player-door.

Let's assume the following, which a simplification is based on my gut feeling about how things play out in the Vault's first floor door:
- 1 in 4 players will bypass the puzzle if they find themselves alone there, but will wait and help if there's players already waiting
- 1 in 4 players will bypass the puzzle, get in, get out, regardless of other players waiting
- 1 in 4 players will not bypass the puzzle and will wait for there to be enough players
- 1 in 4 players will not bypass the puzzle and will only stay if there's already a couple people there and will otherwise ignore the puzzle
- a new player shows up every minute, we'll be calling them p1 p2 p3 in order, and we'll be polling in order from the 4 types of players above

In the scenario where things are as currently and puzzles can be bypassed:
p1 shows up, sees nobody, bypasses the puzzle and goes away, it didn't wait.
p2 shows up, bypasses the puzzle and goes away, it didn't wait.
p3 shows up, begins to wait.
p4 shows up, sees only one person waiting, ignores the puzzle
p5 shows up, joins in waiting.
p6 shows up, bypasses the puzzle and goes away
p7 shows up, joins in waiting
p8 shows up, they're the 4th player, p4 p5 p7 and p8 get the reward, having waited 5, 3 1 and 0 minutes respectively.
p9 would be the same archetype as p1 so we're looping, let's end it at p8
The average wait between all players that got the reward was 1.29 (that's 9/7) minutes, the longest wait was 5 minutes

In the scenario where one cannot bypass the puzzles:
p1 shows up, begins to wait
p2 shows up, joins in waiting.
p3 shows up, joins in waiting.
p4 shows up, joins since there's enough people, they're the 4th player, p1 p2 p3 and p4 get the reward having waited 3, 2 1 and 0 minutes respectively
The average wait between all players that got the reward was 1.5 (that's 6/4) minutes, the longest wait was 3 minutes

So, considering the average time people had to wait, yes it gets better as more people skip the puzzle and just immediately get the reward. But the "worst case" gets also worse and worse for the one moth that will wait on that door to do it legit. This is all giving that one person one hell of a frustrating time.

In my opinion, the game should just have doors automatically open after a 3 minutes of waiting, regardless of how many people show up. That way the "worst case" remains reasonable regardless of how many people decide to ignore the people who are waiting by the door.

[Henpemaz]

And yes, I'm overthinking and overanalyzing a small issue in a chill game, I'm into game design and I find all these player-player interactions fascinating. And this one doesn't look quite right to me.