On Taking Control Away From the Player — What Ruined the Sky Demo for Me

[MonocleRB]

If any thatgamecompany game designers are reading these discussion posts, I'd just like to explain why, despite having good expectations for Sky, wasn't able to enjoy the demo. I'd seen and heard a bit about Sky on other platforms, but never played it. When I saw a free demo was coming to PC, I thought it would be a great opportunity to see what the game was all about.

But in my about half hour of playtime, I wasn't able to enjoy the game at all. Most that half hour was spent watching cutscenes explaining Important Things in the Lore that, because everything is told but never shown, I had no investment or care in.

But the worst was that it didn't feel like I was playing a game. I could never go more than a minute without control being wrested away from me for another cutscene. I played the Sky demo right after beating Half-Life 2, and after playing a game like Half-Life that is dedicated to never taking control away from the player even during cinematic or plot-relevant scenes, playing Sky was somewhere between boring and frustrating.

Perhaps the full game is much more engaging, but my time in the demo spent walking from one cutscene to the next with the only gameplay being walking across a lifeless desert does not encourage me to spend more time with Sky, let alone spend money on it. I don't want Sky to fail, I want it to be better, and I sincerely hope you can take this critique and use it to improve the game.

[Traltwin]

Missed the point of the game. :-)

[A Ghost]

I don't mind it for important lore-related things but having to see a door open or the vault platforms powering up for the 100th time, sometimes in an UNSKIPPABLE cutscene is not the best.

[Meat Vegetable]

There are far too many cut scenes, I am still playing and enjoying this game but the cut scenes are just so numerous, stupid, and genuinely pointless to see. And so many of them are just completely unnecessary. There are times I light candles and then oh great I have to watch this stupid wall light up... right.

[atomizer]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Meat Vegetable:

There are times I light candles and then oh great I have to watch this stupid wall light up... right.

White candles are (generally) quest-related and don't give wax, so you don't need to touch them again.

Unfortunately, part of learning the game is what NOT to do and where NOT to go to avoid cutscene triggers. Thankfully it is possible to dodge or speed up majority of them.

[Auzi]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Traltwin:

we don't need someone like you gunking up our fun time. :-)

That's going a bit far. Totally uncalled for.
He has a very valid point that even us vets have complained about for years. The auto camera "feature" that forces you to look in a specific direction feel terrible on PC. You're constantly fighting the camera, and it even makes me nauseous. I could deal with it on mobile but on PC it ain't it. Hope it gets changed or at least a way around it.

[Mimy Roo]

Welcome to sky! A Door Opening Simulator. heh.
Yeah. Your camera gets kidnapped every 5 seconds for a door to open or a spirit you didn't even start. Drives us all nuts. Even more so the doors in Forrest refusing to open and TGC hasn't fixed them yet.

[Meat Vegetable]

Początkowo opublikowane przez atomizer:

Początkowo opublikowane przez Meat Vegetable:

There are times I light candles and then oh great I have to watch this stupid wall light up... right.

White candles are (generally) quest-related and don't give wax, so you don't need to touch them again.

Unfortunately, part of learning the game is what NOT to do and where NOT to go to avoid cutscene triggers. Thankfully it is possible to dodge or speed up majority of them.

Yeah, thanks for talking to me like an idiot. I'm aware I don't have to light them but then I walk towards them with my candle out and boom, stuck now yay.

[hiao233]

i cant agree more with your opinion,you can watch this video from a designer of journey,the best game of tgc i think,you will find In fact, they went against their own design guidelines.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7307qRmlMI

[Shane-Frost]

Personally I enjoyed the cut-scenes!.....The first time around. I think it's wonderful seeing idea's and emotions presented more in a silent film kind of way.

I feel that the game's story does not have to be larger or more descriptive, as often time's it's really just the small moments connecting with players and spirits what is at the true heart of it all.

That being said while I do appreciate these cut-scenes, they are, like the area/spirit events, not as desirable once you have came around for the ninth time and so on, and so on. Granted, some of these you already have the option to skip, but not all of them. I do admit with a chuckle, it can be a little odd having to hit the skip button multiple times for a scene as well.

Being given the option to toggle these camera triggers and cut-scenes for those who have already played through the game is something I feel is not unreasonable. I do not believe the appreciation of an area or story is dependent on having control taken from you to LOOK AT IT! LOOK AT IIIIIIIIIIT.

[Clint Cannon]

OP, Please read this.
The demo is about everything the game has ever been without the cash shop, that being said, the lost spirits are not something you'll be doing forever, once you have helped them all, you won't ever need to do them again, and the way you unlock cosmetics and emotes is through spending candles with the spirit that has whichever cosmetic or emote that you want. It has been a while since I played actively (although the demo has had me coming back), so forgive me if I am mistaken, but most spirits have at least one cosmetic, and 4 variations of one emote, with levels 1 and 3 of the emotes being the different two base ones, and level 2 and 4 being exaggerated by in game effects such as spectacular dazzle or animated effects that usually align with the theme of the emote. The game is highly a social experience, and personally I grew bored of the spirits rather quickly, very few of the quests are anything to write home about, some have touching or heartwarming moments but most are unfortunately rather clunky in execution. My gameplay pattern usually develops into hopping on and running a map or three for candles, getting the wings on these maps which can be challenging at times, but once you learn their location through repetition you can do this rather quickly, and after that I usually just hang around with friends that I have met along the way, which is the real meat of Sky, If you do not like to socialize, I would recommend steering clear, however if you ever played Journey and ever desired to have a word with the stranger that you met, talk about what you experienced in the game together, or thank someone who helped you, and potentially nurture these friendships, I wholeheartedly recommend sticking with it for a bit longer, I have several friends over a few years now from all over the world that I talk to almost on a weekly basis that I met originally in Sky. For me, it is quite entertaining how the emotes are so available and easy to access, and they are really great tools for fun with friends and strangers alike. The game is not an action packed game, but there are a few stages with some actually punishing failure states that can potentially set you back a few hours, so there is not really a lack of high stakes in the game, I do not wish to spoil the game for you since it is quite magical to experience it on your own, but if you ever played games like Journey or Abzü, you have a rough idea of where we are heading. My initial transition to PC with having hundreds of hours on mobile were rather rough, but the easy chat made the decision for me, and over time having just put up with it, I am starting to be able to fly properly again, good players in sky rarely walk or run, it is mostly about flying really, and I for one have always loved flying in this game, the wing level is really the major show of progress on your character, and starting out you have only one wing boost which is not enough to get around efficiently.

Edit; You can actually move around during alot of the cutscenes in this game, so if you know where to go you can shave at least a few minutes of your speedruns by just proceeding even though you have lost camera control, specifically the ones triggered by doors and minor events do not lock up your character, but I agree that if there is anything I would choose to change with this game for the better would be allowing us to skip cutscenes altogether, atleast the ones that we have seen, as it is still a tedium.

[ShinChuck]

I can kind of sympathize. I only started maybe about six weeks ago on an emulator. My initial experience was… oh, I watch unvoiced spirits give vague impressions of events in their lives as I walk around a big, empty desert and slowly light candles. Other avatars toddle about, doing the same things; virtually faceless NPCs.

I had a couple of friends who had recommended the game, so I poked at it for a few weeks, never making it very far. It seemed pretty enough, but rather shallow. Not for me, I guess.

Then something strange happened: a random person directed me to a bench, and we began talking. Soon, my new friend from China was really showing me what Sky was about, helping me unlock emotes and showing me the world. I finally hooked up with my old friends who had recommended the game to me, and now they were showing me—and we were discovering—new locations and places, each beautiful. The excitement started to grow as we found new places or I got a new cape or I learned a new way for my avatar—me!—to express myself.

The spirits grew on me. Some of their stories were dull and generic and entirely unforgettable, and some to this day don’t make sense to me no matter how hard I work my gray matter. Some of their stories, even told so simplistically, were genuinely moving. Friends new and old were excited to find out what I thought about some of the big ones. I’m definitely not constantly repeating the spirits cutscenes anymore, but I wouldn’t repeat the majority of side quests in any given RPG either. Yet despite their initial overwhelming appearance, they’re only a small bit of the game.

Somewhere it just clicked for me that it wasn’t about grinding out candles or getting 100% completion or anything “gamey”: it was about the people. Old friends and I spent hours holding hands questing together, working on the events, showing me gorgeous places they had found, leading into a final stage that required some of the most intimate, bittersweet cooperation I’ve experienced in a game. Sometimes we didn’t even game: we just found a place somewhere and chatted, emoting like it was real life, sometimes for hours.

The depth really hit me the other day. Each event operates a little differently, and how the gameplay loop where each playthrough builds on the last. Discoveries open new paths that lead to new discoveries. The variety of quests from the spirits, including a quest chain based around—and including—pure song, sung in-game by a famous (not spoiling it!) vocalist. Shared Spaces, allowing players to create their own interactive worlds anywhere within the game world, turning a little pond into an oasis with food and drink and beach chairs and fireworks.

Props that can enhance your gameplay or simply make things a little more fun. A variety of in-game instruments that can be played to a depth similar to the real thing, either by following in-game songbooks or free-form. A bunch of clothing and style options to express yourself as you desire.

I’m sitting at around 45 hours on the “demo” with probably another several across mobile, Switch, and emulation, and I’m loving it. It’s really about expressing yourself in terms of looks, emotions, and animations, making yourself an equal part of a real breathing world and community, about meeting and connecting with friends.

If you’re social, you might end up liking it! Then again, I’m severely introverted IRL to the point of it being detrimental to my daily life, and being able to make these connections is just wonderful, so even that’s not indicative either way.

If none of that sounds appealing, it still might not be for you, and that’s totally okay too!

[Auzi]

Początkowo opublikowane przez ShinChuck:

I can kind of sympathize. I only started maybe about six weeks ago on an emulator. My initial experience was… oh, I watch unvoiced spirits give vague impressions of events in their lives as I walk around a big, empty desert and slowly light candles. Other avatars toddle about, doing the same things; virtually faceless NPCs.

I had a couple of friends who had recommended the game, so I poked at it for a few weeks, never making it very far. It seemed pretty enough, but rather shallow. Not for me, I guess.

Then something strange happened: a random person directed me to a bench, and we began talking. Soon, my new friend was China was really showing me what Sky was about, helping me unlock emotes and showing me the world. I finally hooked up with my old friends who had recommended the game to me, and now they were showing me—and we were discovering—new locations and places, each beautiful. The excitement started to grow as we found new places or I got a new cape or I learned a new way for my avatar—me!—to express myself.

The spirits grew on me. Some of their stories were dull and generic and entirely unforgettable, and some to this day don’t make sense to me no matter how hard I work my gray matter. Some of their stories, even told so simplistically, were genuinely moving. Friends new and old were excited to find out what I thought about some of the big ones. I’m definitely not constantly repeating the spirits cutscenes anymore, but I wouldn’t repeat the majority of side quests in any given RPG either. Yet despite their initial overwhelming appearance, they’re only a small bit of the game.

Somewhere it just clicked for me that it wasn’t about grinding out candles or getting 100% completion or anything “gamey”: it was about the people. Old friends and I spent hours holding hands questing together, working on the events, showing me gorgeous places they had found, leading into a final stage that required some of the most intimate, bittersweet cooperation I’ve experienced in a game. Sometimes we didn’t even game: we just found a place somewhere and chatted, emoting like it was real life, sometimes for hours.

The depth really hit me the other day. Each event operates a little differently, and how the gameplay loop where each playthrough builds on the last. Discoveries open new paths that lead to new discoveries. The variety of quests from the spirits, including a quest chain based around—and including—pure song, sung in-game by a famous (not spoiling it!) vocalist. Shared Spaces, allowing players to create their own interactive worlds anywhere within the game world, turning a little pond into an oasis with food and drink and beach chairs and fireworks.

Props that can enhance your gameplay or simply make things a little more fun. A variety of in-game instruments that can be played to a depth similar to the real thing, either by following in-game songbooks or free-form. A bunch of clothing and style options to express yourself as you desire.

I’m sitting at around 45 hours on the “demo” with probably another several across mobile, Switch, and emulation, and I’m loving it. It’s really about expressing yourself in terms of looks, emotions, and animations, making yourself an equal part of a real breathing world and community, about meeting and connecting with friends.

If you’re social, you might end up liking it! Then again, I’m severely introverted IRL to the point of it being detrimental to my daily life, and being able to make these connections is just wonderful, so even that’s not indicative either way.

If none of that sounds appealing, it still might not be for you, and that’s totally okay too! :mpgb_ayumi:

As a veteran player of almost 6 years now, this brought a tear to my eye. Take my award <3

[wizard master結城晶子リ]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Anastasia:

Welcome to sky! A Door Opening Simulator. heh.
Yeah. Your camera gets kidnapped every 5 seconds for a door to open or a spirit you didn't even start. Drives us all nuts. Even more so the doors in Forrest refusing to open and TGC hasn't fixed them yet.

thats odd they open for me when ig up ot them did you save the spirit to who will open it for you

[Cackles]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Traltwin:

we don't need someone like you gunking up our fun time. :-)

Where's a spray bottle emote when ya need one

[Koiffy]

sounds like a you problem tbh