wardens and mini exploders

[Titanium Jesus]

make the azur biome impossible. Too many racing micro exploders that have way too much hp to effectively kill really any of them before the detonate on you and the wardens... always like 2 or 3 of them making the bugs nearly immune to damage and you can't ever stop them because they are always, ALWAYS, nested in the middle of the horde. So you run around trying and failing to get to a jump pad to get away from the exploders and gaining next to no levels to increase dps because of the wardens that are omnipresent. It's honestly embarrassing from a design stance. Seriously, if the wardens aren't tweaked so the player can take care of them, then the biome is lost forever. And if they aren't altered and start showing up in all the others? Then the game is done. The wardens as they are now really are THAT bad.

[Neomare]

Originally posted by Titanium Jesus:

make the azur biome impossible. Too many racing micro exploders that have way too much hp to effectively kill really any of them before the detonate on you and the wardens... always like 2 or 3 of them making the bugs nearly immune to damage and you can't ever stop them because they are always, ALWAYS, nested in the middle of the horde. So you run around trying and failing to get to a jump pad to get away from the exploders and gaining next to no levels to increase dps because of the wardens that are omnipresent. It's honestly embarrassing from a design stance. Seriously, if the wardens aren't tweaked so the player can take care of them, then the biome is lost forever. And if they aren't altered and start showing up in all the others? Then the game is done. The wardens as they are now really are THAT bad.

you need to kite in a wider circle and that is about it. Pretty simple. They found a design which breaks the most OP habbit of players.

Its a dash of fresh air :).

[Titanium Jesus]

except it doesn't work most of the time because you just run into another warden in my experience. I honestly think the biggest problem with them is the fact the damage reduction buff lingers.

[Neomare]

Originally posted by Titanium Jesus:

except it doesn't work most of the time because you just run into another warden in my experience. I honestly think the biggest problem with them is the fact the damage reduction buff lingers.

The map is pretty big it would require a LOT of wardens so you would keep bumping into new ones.

I mean they are anoying i do sympathise with your frustration but for me they are not as anoying as Q'Ranar in Salt Pits. I just might be old but those are hard to dodge. both Challenges are welcome addition for me.


But still. While i do understand i would say you did exagerate when you said it is impossible.


In any case i had sucess in Azure weld so far, this includes the first 2 lethal operations which had some really nasty modifiers and I am definitely not among the best players of this game not even close.


So i asure you it is doable, don't let couple of bad experiences drag you down.


Good luck!

[Protek]

Wardens are stationary when deployed. I am almost done doing all gun/class masteries. And have done all masteries on that biome on haz5. Its balanced.

The little ones can be tricked. The moment they spawn (its always on big waves) you can immediatly go into a small tunnel and dig into it further. They follow in a straight line and die without being able to do anything to you. In the first stage you will need 10% dig speed (in addition to metaprogression upgrade) to outpace them, otherwise you will get a little damage in which can then be healed by the stones.

The stage also has the insane healing crystals which you can just run in/out of. There is alot of movement and strategy involved in azure biome and i love it.

edit: forgot to mention, you can lure the big bulk of enemies away once the warden is stationary then use a jump pad to get immediatly to them and away from the bulk to finish em. I always kill the wardens as soon as they spawn until the last wave, there its just when its possible. They dont even help bosses because they dont move and the boss will follow you every step (and elites too) so they dont even get the buff.

[カミル]

I hate them as well, mini exploders are a damage check for close range targeting weapons, if you fail, you get damaged.

Wardens are a damage check for elite killer/directional weapons, if fail this one and the swarm takes no damage. You ran into them, they just reposition and do the same ♥♥♥♥ again after 3 seconds.

And its easy to fail these damage check even with maxed meta upgrades, you just pick a weak weapon, and there is a lot of weak weapons, or get screwed by rng and its that easy to fail.

The big yellow exploders in comparison are a lot more balanced, you may fail to damage them enough before they come to you, but you can bait their explosion by walking closer and then backing off, some small amount of actual skill is needed. You can do something.

The small exploders is just bad design.

[Titanium Jesus]

well if that's the case, then 90% of the game's weapons are now obsolete. because nearly none of them are short range or elite targeters. They fire in a pattern, or random direction, medium to long range with the sole exception I can think of off hand being the minigun. If what you say is true then these have railroaded us into using 2 or 3 weapons; which is entirely unacceptable and I honestly doubt that was the intent behind them. This mean all drones, all turrets, and almost all guns are rendered inoperable based on these checks you describe when wardens and the minis enter the map. even the directional ones because the hoard simply engulfs the warden and soaks up your bullets with the lingering defense buff they get from being in the field AND you can't try running away from the warden's defense because you must be facing it.

And yes, I do run into THAT many wardens. Past stage 2, they are everywhere. It doesn't matter how many weapon upgrades of what potency I am offered at level up; it is never enough to offset either mob, let alone both at once. Based off of the responses, my experiences aren't the norm, but it has happened every single time I have tried to go to the weald without exception or failure. Was I just horrifically cruel to kittens in a past life?

[CopperBack]

New map is hardest map is hard

[WooTs]

You gotta use speed to out run them and fire to do damage while they chase you.

[Lyn Helldiver]

The zone is just not ever fun to play in. The two enemies just make build variety too narrow. The exploders should chain off of each other, because without piercing, when there is 30 behind me, projectile weapons are not getting anything done.

Meanwhile wardens counter all explosive/throwable weapons. Seriously, when 2 is on the field and they're in the middle of the pack? It's GG. The 90% damage mitigation is obnoxious, makes it even worse when they put it on the Elite. What am I supposed to do then?

I'm on the clock to kill the Wardens else I'm screwed. Except the hordes of exploders are going to chunk me if I don't kite.

People who say it's easy are not running it as Gunner. They are cheesing it with some Turret-wizardry from the N'th dimension or always have some nifty freeze weapon that shuts both of those bugs down completely.

[Yasahi]

Originally posted by <c=FFFFCC33>Jane Helldiver</c>:

The zone is just not ever fun to play in. The two enemies just make build variety too narrow. The exploders should chain off of each other, because without piercing, when there is 30 behind me, projectile weapons are not getting anything done.

Meanwhile wardens counter all explosive/throwable weapons. Seriously, when 2 is on the field and they're in the middle of the pack? It's GG. The 90% damage mitigation is obnoxious, makes it even worse when they put it on the Elite. What am I supposed to do then?

I'm on the clock to kill the Wardens else I'm screwed. Except the hordes of exploders are going to chunk me if I don't kite.

People who say it's easy are not running it as Gunner. They are cheesing it with some Turret-wizardry from the N'th dimension or always have some nifty freeze weapon that shuts both of those bugs down completely.

I don't know what you're doing with the Gunner, but Heavy Gunner is perhaps the easiest class to go with on a Hazard 5 dive in Azure Weald. You have Thunderhead from the get go and have access to weapons like the Seismic Repulsor, Hurricane Rockets and Incendiary Grenades.

On Stage 1 you make a tunnel into the rock when a wave comes. The Thunderhead will clear everything that tries to come to you. The rest of the time you run or jump around mining. The Thunderhead will kill any Wardens that are following thanks to piercing. Seismic Repulsors/Incendiary Grenades/Hurricane rockets will also take out the swarm following you. Hurricane becomes silly if you get the incendiary rockets OC for it.

This is easy mode: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3383283985
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3383284079

[GIRL]

Wardens imo are fine as is. Annoying, but manageable.

It's the mini exploders I can't stand. They need to have either their damage or health reduced. They're way too tanky for the mass-quantity swarmer-type bug they're supposed to be.

[Wheredoyoukeepthechocolate?]

The mini exploders combined with the larger swarms in the azure weald make for one of the stiffest challenges in the game. The biome forces adjustments in playstyle that aren't necessary anywhere else. Mostly, this involves anticipating when a swarm is about to spawn and digging a defensive tunnel to funnel all the mini exploders into one place. It also influences which weapons are effective.

I'm fine with the wardens and exploders as they are, but if I had to nerf something, I'd reduce the minie exploders health or speed slightly. They don't give you much breathing room and are surprisingly tanky for such a small enemy. I think the azure weald is supposed to be the hardest biome, so if they nerf them, they'd probably have to buff something else to keep the challenge the same.

If anyone is insisting on nerfing the mini exploders, be glad you didn't play during day one of update 4. After one day, they nerfed three or four aspects of them. The little buggers were absolutely ludicrous before those nerfs.

[Yasahi]

Originally posted by Wheredoyoukeepthechocolate?:

If anyone is insisting on nerfing the mini exploders, be glad you didn't play during day one of update 4. After one day, they nerfed three or four aspects of them. The little buggers were absolutely ludicrous before those nerfs.

They were a proper challenge then. Clearing Hazard 5 felt like it actually took some skill.

[SayHi2Jesus4Me]

IMO the problem with the mini exploders is that they don't have a fuse/timer before exploding like in DRG. Masses of mini exploders are supposed to prevent you from sitting still, denying you space. In Survivor they are just homing missiles that force you to get movement speed buffs and make status effect or weapons with slow attack speed or that don't target closest enemies useless. Ultimately it's being forced into specific upgrades/weapons that causes a doom spiral of dissatisfaction for me. Once you're forced to go with certain builds and playstyles, you're now more penalized by the RNG, so it's like putting salt in the wound.

I'd much rather have them explode after 0.75 seconds in a larger area if they were on a timer. That would allow weapons that do slower bursts of damage or that aren't as targeted on the closest enemies to work without you constantly taking damage.

I also don't have as much of a problem with wardens except for when the mini exploders prevent you from getting to them, which is mostly just in the weapon masteries since the problem I described is much more apparent there.

[CopperBack]

Originally posted by SayHi2Jesus4Me:

IMO the problem with the mini exploders is that they don't have a fuse/timer before exploding like in DRG. Masses of mini exploders are supposed to prevent you from sitting still, denying you space. In Survivor they are just homing missiles that force you to get movement speed buffs and make status effect or weapons with slow attack speed or that don't target closest enemies useless. Ultimately it's being forced into specific upgrades/weapons that causes a doom spiral of dissatisfaction for me. Once you're forced to go with certain builds and playstyles, you're now more penalized by the RNG, so it's like putting salt in the wound.

I'd much rather have them explode after 0.75 seconds in a larger area if they were on a timer. That would allow weapons that do slower bursts of damage or that aren't as targeted on the closest enemies to work without you constantly taking damage.

I also don't have as much of a problem with wardens except for when the mini exploders prevent you from getting to them, which is mostly just in the weapon masteries since the problem I described is much more apparent there.

They do have a fuse its just extremely short window and hard to trigger