Lake Lethe? (Act III spoilers inside)

[al2o3cr]

I didn't see anything about this here, so I figured I'd make a note.

(the rest of this is Act III spoilers, beware)

At the barrel dump in the Hard Times distillery, Doolittle mentions "cutting it [the whiskey] with water from Lake Lethe".

Over by the water pumps, we get another mention: "The Echo River is fed from Lake Lethe, but you wouldn't recognize a drop of it. Lethe is cold, dark, and so very deep. And still!"

It probably doesn't come as a surprise that "Lethe" is another reference. In this case, it seems likely to be a reference to one of the five rivers of the Greek underworld. In classical Greek, the word "lethe" means oblivion, forgetfulness, or concealment (it's the root of words like "lethargy"). The Aeneid depicts drinking from the Lethe as having the power to erase the memories of the dead.

It's particularly odd since one of the primary obsessions of Hard Times employees seems to be REMEMBERING how much they owe, every minute of the day. But it would give a whole new meaning to the idea of "drinking to forget"...

There's not really a point to this post, just noting the info down in case others are interested.

[Voider]

I like this.

[mendel]

http://sheiladeespostcards.ecrater.com/p/6801570/lake-lethe-in-mammoth-cave-postcard

So, the lake exists; any reference in the game is a reference to the actual lake, but of course our educated game designers may well be aware of the connotations of that name and employ them to heighten (deepen? broaden?) the plot.

http://www.pbase.com/datalore/ky_tn
Note that the river Styx is close to lake Lethe.

From A guide manual to the Mammoth cave of Kentucky[archive.org]:

SECTION XII.

LAKE LETHE.

Lake Lethe is one hundred and fifty yards long, from ten to forty feet wide, and in depth varies from three to thirty feet. The ceiling of the avenue at this point is ninety feet above the surface of the Lake. Lake Lethe extends in the direction of the avenue, the floor of which is covered by it. Visitors in taking the Long Route, cross it in boats.

Mystical realism, gotta love it!

[eli]

Originally posted by Voider:

I like this.

Same. :) Thanks for sharing, al2o3cr, and mendel.

[Witchy]

Ooooh my god. Ok THIS POST CONTAINS UNHIDDEN SPOILERS for Here and There Along the Echo because if I hid them I couldn't talk about anything.

This ties in to the quote decoded by the fine folks over at the thread about the phone calls you recieve in Here and There Along the Echo if you wait long enough. For reference, here's the quote:

By night we suffer, wandering, night frees the imprisoned spirits,
and his cage abandoned Cerberus himself strays. At dawn the law demands return to the
pools of Lethe: we are borne across, and the ferryman counts the load he’s carried.

This is a quote from another work, but the really important part here is that it's also a reference to the Greek underworld, specifically the rivers Lethe and Styx. For those of you who don't recognize the names, Styx is the famous river that separates the living world from the dead, Hades, to which dead people must be ferried across the river by Charon, who is often depicted as a Grim Reaper (a skeleton in a cloak) these days. The tradition of burying the dead with a coin under their tongue was meant to make sure the dead could pay the ferryman and enter into Hades, where they would be judged and either eternally rewarded, eternally punished, or simply left to an ordinary eternity.

Less well known is the river Lethe, which is, yes, the river of forgetfulness, specifically the river that the dead must drink from before they can enter Hades as it erases their memories. This is described in the tale of Hercules when he is tasked to rescue the friend of this dude who tried to help this other dude run off with Persephone from eternal punishment. In order to do this Hercules must enter and return from the underworld without dying or being claimed by the dead. He is warned that he must not eat or drink anything from the underworld, and especially must avoid drinking from the pool of the river Lethe's waters, which more closely ties this to the lake. This idea expands on the imprisonment of Persephone, who was also trapped through food, and casts an odd light on the "Food & Drink" recomendations section in HATATE.

So, no, this actually makes perfect sense, especially coupled with my earlier observation that the Hard Times Distillery brews their ale partly from corpse runoff. The Hard Times Distillery is an indicator not just of forgetfulness but of death.

Aaah that got long sorry Greek myth is my thing.

[blue]

Originally posted by AutopsyBlue:

Ooooh my god. Ok THIS POST CONTAINS UNHIDDEN SPOILERS for Here and There Along the Echo because if I hid them I couldn't talk about anything.

This ties in to the quote decoded by the fine folks over at the thread about the phone calls you recieve in Here and There Along the Echo if you wait long enough. For reference, here's the quote:

By night we suffer, wandering, night frees the imprisoned spirits,
and his cage abandoned Cerberus himself strays. At dawn the law demands return to the
pools of Lethe: we are borne across, and the ferryman counts the load he’s carried.

This is a quote from another work, but the really important part here is that it's also a reference to the Greek underworld, specifically the rivers Lethe and Styx. For those of you who don't recognize the names, Styx is the famous river that separates the living world from the dead, Hades, to which dead people must be ferried across the river by Charon, who is often depicted as a Grim Reaper (a skeleton in a cloak) these days. The tradition of burying the dead with a coin under their tongue was meant to make sure the dead could pay the ferryman and enter into Hades, where they would be judged and either eternally rewarded, eternally punished, or simply left to an ordinary eternity.

Less well known is the river Lethe, which is, yes, the river of forgetfulness, specifically the river that the dead must drink from before they can enter Hades as it erases their memories. This is described in the tale of Hercules when he is tasked to rescue the friend of this dude who tried to help this other dude run off with Persephone from eternal punishment. In order to do this Hercules must enter and return from the underworld without dying or being claimed by the dead. He is warned that he must not eat or drink anything from the underworld, and especially must avoid drinking from the pool of the river Lethe's waters, which more closely ties this to the lake. This idea expands on the imprisonment of Persephone, who was also trapped through food, and casts an odd light on the "Food & Drink" recomendations section in HATATE.

So, no, this actually makes perfect sense, especially coupled with my earlier observation that the Hard Times Distillery brews their ale partly from corpse runoff. The Hard Times Distillery is an indicator not just of forgetfulness but of death.

Aaah that got long sorry Greek myth is my thing.

Wow... would love if you talk about this more or make a guide or something, i really did not know that

[Witchy]

Aaaah I don't think I'm well read enough to make a guide to literary references for the entire game. I'm more than happy to contribute if someone else does though!

[eli]

Originally posted by AutopsyBlue:

Aaaah I don't think I'm well read enough to make a guide to literary references for the entire game. I'm more than happy to contribute if someone else does though!

I try to mention all literary (and other) references over in my Character Guide. :)
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=257260830

[blue]

Originally posted by eli:

Originally posted by AutopsyBlue:

Aaaah I don't think I'm well read enough to make a guide to literary references for the entire game. I'm more than happy to contribute if someone else does though!

I try to mention all literary (and other) references over in my Character Guide. :)
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=257260830

i really love what you did, it was helpful. is it weird that i read it numerous times? xD i hope not.

[eli]

So glad you like it!

[TheGreatDarkOne]

Originally posted by AutopsyBlue:

So, no, this actually makes perfect sense, especially coupled with my earlier observation that the Hard Times Distillery brews their ale partly from corpse runoff.

Wait... I must have missed something in my playthrough. How did you come to the conclusion that Hard Times whiskey is brewed from corpse runoff?

[blue]

Originally posted by TheGreatDarkOne:

Originally posted by AutopsyBlue:

So, no, this actually makes perfect sense, especially coupled with my earlier observation that the Hard Times Distillery brews their ale partly from corpse runoff.

Wait... I must have missed something in my playthrough. How did you come to the conclusion that Hard Times whiskey is brewed from corpse runoff?

I think its something you get to click on in distellary in the far right, you get to see caskets or coffins and when you click on it it gives you that.

[VShadow]

Originally posted by TheGreatDarkOne:

Wait... I must have missed something in my playthrough. How did you come to the conclusion that Hard Times whiskey is brewed from corpse runoff?

There are several references and hints. I don't remember all the specifics right now, but Lem hints at it in the distillery, and the tombstones above (outside the church) all have flavor notes for each of the deceased.

[Witchy]

What VShadow said, plus if you go look at the wreck in Acts I & II you can see a coffin on the side of the road. The wreck is referenced several times thoughout the game as a Distillery wreck, first by Joseph saying that a bunch of bottles broke and then the receptionist (Ann?) at the Bureau of Reclaimed Spaces saying they ordered alcohol from the distillery that never came. Also, if you go to the back of the distillery, in the NE wall if I'm remembering correctly, there's a bunch of coffins. I can't remember if the tour guide says anything about it, but I think he does?