STOP WHINING ABOUT REFUNDS

[Witchy]

You signed up for this when you bought the game. Delayed gratification, and delayed-not-at-all-on-your-schedule gratification at that, is part of the deal. If you couldn't handle that YOU SHOULDN'T HAVE BOUGHT THE DAMN GAME.

EDIT: If you insist on complaining, the devs have set up a line JUST FOR YOU at 1-858-WHEN-KRZ. Please call this number and scream at them as much and as loudly as you want.

[Captain Cuddles]

; )

[meshpet]

yea people need to just stop buying early access and uncompleted games unless they don't care if it fails. some games i'll still get that are in early access like starbound, but i don't mind letting it sit there for 2 years. I have so many games on my list i still need to play =_=

[nobbie]

"You signed up for this when you bought the game."

Except I bought the game when it was sold with a pretty solid timeline for release (bought February 2013, promised to be released by 2014), which has since been wiped from the Steam store page. Imagine if Telltale started selling games, releasing two or three episodes, keep promising that "the release is imminent" and not bother actually releasing a damn thing. That's a worrying precedent for episodic games if Steam allows this behavior.

I like getting a product I paid for, and after over two years after the supposed release of the whole product, people are more the pissed off. Steam has to come up with some system of determining if intial store page has been misleading and offer refunds on some other basis than two weeks owned, two hours played.

[Silviu]

STOP SHILLING FOR FREE!

[Case]

TellTale? Really? I mean, really?

[nobbie]

Ursprungligen skrivet av hawktheindian:

TellTale? Really? I mean, really?

I don't get the meaning of your post.

[wayninja]

Ursprungligen skrivet av nobbie:

Ursprungligen skrivet av hawktheindian:

TellTale? Really? I mean, really?

I don't get the meaning of your post.

It's because your not an artist, man. CC are true artists while Telltale are just a bunch of squares.

I didn't buy the game precisely because I believed this would happen. Can I still whine?

[Witchy]

Ursprungligen skrivet av nobbie:

"You signed up for this when you bought the game."

Except I bought the game when it was sold with a pretty solid timeline for release (bought February 2013, promised to be released by 2014), which has since been wiped from the Steam store page. Imagine if Telltale started selling games, releasing two or three episodes, keep promising that "the release is imminent" and not bother actually releasing a damn thing. That's a worrying precedent for episodic games if Steam allows this behavior.

1. You didn't buy the timeline, you bought the game.
2. There is no indication that Cardboard Computer has stopped development. There's no reason for Steam to step in.

Ursprungligen skrivet av Silviu:

STOP SHILLING FOR FREE!

Not paid dude, just annoyed as ♥♥♥♥ at how stupid some people get about this particular topic. Not the wait time, the ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ refunds.

Ursprungligen skrivet av wayninja:

I didn't buy the game precisely because I believed this would happen. Can I still whine?

Not about refunds you can't.

[nobbie]

Ursprungligen skrivet av AutopsyBlue:

1. You didn't buy the timeline, you bought the game.

Actually yes, I did, as did everyone else before the release schedule was mysteriously wiped from the product description.

If something is in the product description and the product doesn't match said description, that is misleading the consumer and at that point the consumer is entitled to a refund. This includes an explicitly stated schedule for a game release that the developer then breaks by multiple years.

The consumer can select at this point if they are bothered by the extreme delay. I am, and I'd say rightfully so.

[Witchy]

Steam didn't have refunds at the time you bought the game. You had no real expectation of a refund.

I'm also not sure where you got the idea that a misleading product description is part of Steam's refund policy. I'm pretty sure it's not, nor should it be. You cannot give out refunds based on customer perception when you are selling a non-returnable item. That'd be like giving out refunds to someone who comes back with a used disposable razor, unhappy at the quality of the shave. It is not possible to scale back the time the devs have already spent on development, nor the time they're going to need to spend to satisfy their other customers who would actually prefer product delivery and quality.

Basically, they were not selling you perceptions. They sold you a product, which you presumably used. All you can do now is not buy their next game. I hope you don't, because it is clearly not satisfying to you.

[nobbie]

We're not talking about simply Valve's policies for Steam refunds, we're talking about consumer protection laws both in the EU and the US.

These laws are actually being broken by Steam as Steam stonewalls any requests for refunds when it comes to misleading product descriptions like KRZ, or even completely abandoned projects like Towns. You can't mislead consumers when selling a product, and this includes giving a defined schedule for the delivery of the full product and then completely breaking said schedule. Partial delivery is not good enough.

Companies don't have the sole right to decide when refunds are acceptable.

[wayninja]

Ursprungligen skrivet av AutopsyBlue:

Not about refunds you can't.

And yet. Here I am. Interesting.

Ursprungligen skrivet av AutopsyBlue:

That'd be like giving out refunds to someone who comes back with a used disposable razor, unhappy at the quality of the shave.

Your analogy leaves a lot to be desired. It's more akin to giving refunds to someone who comes back with a disposable razor because the razor is missing the razor part because it's still being built somwhere with vague promises of "its coming soon, so close" and the guys beard is so long that he's given up on using this particular razor to solve his hair growth problem.

Meh, my analogy sucks too, but it's still better than yours.

[Witchy]

Ursprungligen skrivet av wayninja:

And yet. Here I am. Interesting.

Yeah I can't make you go away but I can ignore you. Which is what I'm going to do.


@noobie I did actually get that you were talking about consumer protections. I still disagree that Steam's refund policy is unreasonable. It could be majory reworked, yes, but even the points you're talking about, such as a specific release schedule being part of the product as advertized could be debatable even in a legal context, even in the courtroom. The language of the proposed scedule then becomes very important. Did they actually promise you completion at a certain date, or were they providing an estimate based on the information they currently had? Do more people read the description and think of it as the first situation or the second? Better yet does a judge think it's the first or the second?

[nobbie]

Here's what has happened to KRZ's store page over the last few years.

February 2013:
"Act I is available now. Act II will be released around April 2013, and the remaining three acts over the rest of the year."

June 2013:
"Act I and II are available now. The remaining three acts will be released over the coming year."

January 2014:
"Act I and II are available now. The remaining three acts will be released over 2014."

October 2014:
"Acts I, II and III are available now. The remaining two acts will be released as they're completed."

I bought the game in February 2013. They had a definite schedule on their store page, so there is really no legal gray area here. It's now mid-May of 2016. I signed up getting Act I at the time of purchase, and for the full release to happen roughly a year from that point. The time of release I agreed to was over two years ago. Cardboard Computer as the developer and Steam as the seller haven't held their side of the deal.

I'm of the opinion that consumers and businesses shouldn't just have to eat their losses when someone sells them a product with explicit terms and then breaks them for whatever reason. Even if the devs might have had the best of intentions when releasing the game on Steam and haven't delayed the game on purpose, that doesn't nullify the morality or the law of the situation.

[wayninja]

Ursprungligen skrivet av AutopsyBlue:

Ursprungligen skrivet av wayninja:

And yet. Here I am. Interesting.

Yeah I can't make you go away but I can ignore you. Which is what I'm going to do.

You're telling me that you are ignoring me? That doesn't seem contradictory to you at all?

I'm going to ignore you too, right after I respond to you.

Man this forum is a white hot knife of pure joy.