Quake
randir14 Aug 25, 2021 @ 7:02am
They messed up the lighting
Original: https://imgur.com/rlyIcKq
New: https://imgur.com/UdVeBQn

Original: https://imgur.com/aF4xCcT
New: https://imgur.com/DIJw5VW

Also the new colored lighting they added isn't even as good as this free mod: https://www.moddb.com/games/quake/addons/quake-colored-lightmaps
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Showing 1-15 of 176 comments
Daikatan Aug 25, 2021 @ 7:09am 
Oh. First comparison really striking bad :( without shadows, that room is flat
Gila Aug 25, 2021 @ 7:11am 
They did go through all original maps and tweaked them a little bit, changing the lighting as well. Also added a few small barely noticeable details and fixed some texture allignments, for example check the Green Armor area in E1M1.
[ScrN]PooSH Aug 25, 2021 @ 7:18am 
nVidia would put labels "RTX ON" (original) and "RTX OFF" (new) :steammocking:
OPPAI-INARI Sep 6, 2021 @ 11:32pm 
It really does look poor. I wonder if the developers who worked on this actually cared about preserving the original look at all. I have a few more comparisons to share:

DOS Quake[cdn.discordapp.com]
KEX engine[cdn.discordapp.com]

DOS Quake[cdn.discordapp.com]
KEX engine[cdn.discordapp.com] (totally ruined this trap lol)

DOS Quake[cdn.discordapp.com]
KEX engine[cdn.discordapp.com]
V I D A L Sep 7, 2021 @ 1:33am 
Originally posted by OPPAI-INARI:
It really does look poor. I wonder if the developers who worked on this actually cared about preserving the original look at all. I have a few more comparisons to share:

DOS Quake[cdn.discordapp.com]
KEX engine[cdn.discordapp.com]

DOS Quake[cdn.discordapp.com]
KEX engine[cdn.discordapp.com] (totally ruined this trap lol)

DOS Quake[cdn.discordapp.com]
KEX engine[cdn.discordapp.com]

I think it looks better in Kex. If you want more authentic, turn off FOG. It's what is giving this purple hue to the scene. I think it looks awesome, but if you turn off all enhancements you can get to look much closer to the original.

Besides.. if you want the original, play the original. The remaster is a 'remaster'. What remaster does ever look identical to the original? That would be redundant.
OPPAI-INARI Sep 7, 2021 @ 3:41am 
Originally posted by V I D A L:
I think it looks better in Kex. If you want more authentic, turn off FOG. It's what is giving this purple hue to the scene. I think it looks awesome, but if you turn off all enhancements you can get to look much closer to the original.

Besides.. if you want the original, play the original. The remaster is a 'remaster'. What remaster does ever look identical to the original? That would be redundant.
No, turning off fog does not help at all, lol. There are changes to the level data that you simply aren't going to "fix" by fooling with the settings.

And you know, it isn't called a "remaster" anywhere officially—it's only fans that are calling it that—but even if it were, you would expect a "remaster" to retain the spirit of the original, not completely trample over its artistic direction. I'm sure you think Lucas did the right thing by splattering clumsy CGI effects all over the original Star Wars trilogy, too.

A remaster or updated re-release of a classic video game should offer quality-of-life enhancements while retaining as much of the original spirit of the game as possible. Just like Doom 3 BFG edition, this version of the game is made by people who don't actually like the original, and don't appreciate why its fans *do* like it. It's not an embarrassing cash grab like that one; this one is actually still playable and fun, but it's inferior to the original in ways that it shouldn't be.

(edit) And just to prove my point, I took some more screenshots of E1M6 with all the effects turned off: shot 1[cdn.discordapp.com], shot 2[cdn.discordapp.com], shot 3[cdn.discordapp.com]. Disabling the new effects absolutely does not restore the ambience of the original map. And this is just one example!
Last edited by OPPAI-INARI; Sep 7, 2021 @ 3:55am
[ScrN]PooSH Sep 7, 2021 @ 4:12am 
I wouldn't call a free update "cash grab". Moreover, you can still play the original.
OPPAI-INARI Sep 7, 2021 @ 4:15am 
Originally posted by ScrNPooSH:
I wouldn't call a free update "cash grab". Moreover, you can still play the original.
Moreover, I was referring to Doom 3 BFG Edition. Read more carefully.
Also, it wasn't free to owners of the original game if you didn't own the original game *on Steam*.
Last edited by OPPAI-INARI; Sep 7, 2021 @ 4:15am
ZeppMan217 Sep 7, 2021 @ 4:31am 
Originally posted by OPPAI-INARI:
Originally posted by ScrNPooSH:
I wouldn't call a free update "cash grab". Moreover, you can still play the original.
Moreover, I was referring to Doom 3 BFG Edition. Read more carefully.
Also, it wasn't free to owners of the original game if you didn't own the original game *on Steam*.
Doom 3 seems like a bad example to use given that the purpose of BFG was to lighten up the game, not unlike what happened here with Quake.
[ScrN]PooSH Sep 7, 2021 @ 4:32am 
Originally posted by OPPAI-INARI:
Moreover, I was referring to Doom 3 BFG Edition. Read more carefully.
Also, it wasn't free to owners of the original game if you didn't own the original game *on Steam*.

Sorry, I misread. Yeah, Doom 3 BFG was bull crap.

Regarding Quake, if you own the original game CD, you can continue playing it via source ports like QuakeSpasm or DarkPlaces. If you own it on Steam, you get the update for free. Moreover, you get a brand new episode, which alone is worth $10. Yeah, I know that you can play mods like Arcane Dimensions for free, but $10 for a DLC is a fair price nowadays.

Before we started a holy war, I admit that the lighting in some places is messed up. Nonetheless, I don't find that a big problem, especially because I'm not a fan of the original lighting and its "fifty shades of brown" color palette. Yeah, I know it was due to the 256-color limitation back in 1996, but that's not the case in 2021.
OPPAI-INARI Sep 7, 2021 @ 4:33am 
"The purpose of BFG was to lighten up the game" is a cope by Bethesda fans who are mad that the actual fans of Doom 3 didn't like BFG Edition. They never said that until they got pushback on the release, and nobody has said that they intentionally lightened-up this release of Quake, either, although I'm sure it will be hauled out as an excuse if there's any official response to fans' complaints about this release of Quake.
Originally posted by ScrNPooSH:
Moreover, you get a brand new episode, which alone is worth $10. Yeah, I know that you can play mods like Arcane Dimensions for free, but $10 for a DLC is a fair price nowadays.
That's a fair point. I haven't tried the new content yet; I should go do that.
Originally posted by ScrNPooSH:
Before we start a holy war, I admit that the lighting in some places is messed up. Nonetheless, I don't find that a big problem, especially because I'm not a fan of the original lighting and its "fifty shades of brown" color palette.
This is a totally valid opinion and all respect to you and anyone else who holds this opinion. Like I said, this isn't on the level of Doom 3 BFG. I still think it's crappy that some 20 year old who wants to learn about the origins of FPS games will buy Quake and get a mistaken impression of what the game was like, though.

I actually went and loaded the game up on my DOS/Win32 gaming machine explicitly because I wanted to see if my memories were foggy. Nope—Quake really was that dark! I do appreciate a lot of the improvements in this port and I'm actually a big fan of Kaiser and the KEX engine, but the changes to the lighting and overall map design (with regard to lighting) are pretty poor. Check the images in the OP, too, by the way; it's not just E1M6.
Last edited by OPPAI-INARI; Sep 7, 2021 @ 5:17am
V I D A L Sep 7, 2021 @ 6:43am 
Originally posted by OPPAI-INARI:
No, turning off fog does not help at all, lol. There are changes to the level data that you simply aren't going to "fix" by fooling with the settings.

(edit) And just to prove my point, I took some more screenshots of E1M6 with all the effects turned off: shot 1[cdn.discordapp.com], shot 2[cdn.discordapp.com], shot 3[cdn.discordapp.com]. Disabling the new effects absolutely does not restore the ambience of the original map. And this is just one example!

No it doesn't prove your point, it proves my point. The basic difference, which was pointed out multiple times, is that the remaster is much brighter. Which can be very easily fixed on your end with reshade or whichever.

Besides, I said "more authentic" not identical. Some tweaks in the light were made, but like I said, you can make it look nice and dark similar to the original if that's what you want.. in which case, you might as well play the original instead.

Besides.. Quake officially got different releases that looked vastly different from one another. Quake DOS, VQuake, GLQuake, Quake 64 etc...

GLQuake was much less true to the Software version than this remaster is, and that didn't stop people from enjoying that version for what it was.

Call it what you want. Don't wanna call a remaster, fine.. officially it's called "enhanced" in the trailer. So Quake Enhanced.. which it is.

[ScrN]PooSH Sep 7, 2021 @ 8:42am 
Originally posted by V I D A L:
GLQuake was much less true to the Software version than this remaster is, and that didn't stop people from enjoying that version for what it was.

I'll tell you more. I'm playing Quake 1 since 1997, but I didn't have a 3D graphics card back then. A friend of mine had 3dfx Voodoo, so he could play GLQuake. I was so jealous. GLQuake looked so beautiful, but I had to play that software crap due to lack of hardware. Later on, I'd even completed Quake 2 on 320x200 software renderer. A total disaster. I could afford a 3D card only in 1999. I replayed GLQuake, Q2, Unreal with 3D graphics. Never got back to the software renderer since then. Never understood the pixelated obsession. I worked the entire summer of '98 + evenings/weekends after school to save money for a 3D card, but nowadays, some people are willingly looking at pixels.
Plaid Sep 7, 2021 @ 9:03am 
Originally posted by OPPAI-INARI:
It really does look poor. I wonder if the developers who worked on this actually cared about preserving the original look at all. I have a few more comparisons to share:

DOS Quake[cdn.discordapp.com]
KEX engine[cdn.discordapp.com] (totally ruined this trap lol)
Yes! There's a part in that map where we are supposed to light the way, but the lights are already on so the danger is eliminated.
So ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ lame dude
Last edited by Plaid; Sep 7, 2021 @ 9:05am
Originally posted by ScrNPooSH:
Originally posted by V I D A L:
GLQuake was much less true to the Software version than this remaster is, and that didn't stop people from enjoying that version for what it was.

I'll tell you more. I'm playing Quake 1 since 1997, but I didn't have a 3D graphics card back then. A friend of mine had 3dfx Voodoo, so he could play GLQuake. I was so jealous. GLQuake looked so beautiful, but I had to play that software crap due to lack of hardware. Later on, I'd even completed Quake 2 on 320x200 software renderer. A total disaster. I could afford a 3D card only in 1999. I replayed GLQuake, Q2, Unreal with 3D graphics. Never got back to the software renderer since then. Never understood the pixelated obsession. I worked the entire summer of '98 + evenings/weekends after school to save money for a 3D card, but nowadays, some people are willingly looking at pixels.

You missed nothing from GLQuake. It didn't have colored lighting, and the effects didn't match the software renderer. The game itself wasn't very good either. The sole purpose of glquake was higher fps for multiplayer, and the smoother textures didn't make your eyes bleed.

Smooth textures had a bigger effect than just being modern, especially for multiplayer. There are scientific reasons that improves your visual to mental concentration. This is why the original FEAR had contrasting backgrounds to the enemies, and many multiplayer games have simplified graphics. Excess background noise tires you out, and ruins concentration. Sadly, this is not as well known as it should be, and smart design is not always adhered to. Just look at FEAR2 compared to the first game, as literally everything is worse at the expense of "fancier" graphics that haven't even held up.

The original 3d games kinda had to adhere to this design style, due to memory and api limitations, which is why they were so amazing. Unreal was sort of an exception, because the detail texture layer blended very naturally, and there also wasn't any film grain, bloom, and motion blur back then. Those blurry mess games ended up being less popular than the classics.

Games like Doom didn't have the same visual issues (in software mode), due to having better lighting and cleaner textures. You can't make a decent "retro" game if that design model isn't followed. Hell, Quake is better than 99% of the "retro" games out there, due to this, and it was mediocre at the visuals. Overall, most of the "retro" bandwagon games have no idea how to properly do pixel art, and end up looking like seizure inducing garbage that ruins your eyesight. Not any better than overkill film grain, bloom, and blur, plus negative bonus points for doing both at the same time.
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Date Posted: Aug 25, 2021 @ 7:02am
Posts: 176