Possible to screw up something permanent?

[Hugo]

As a long time fan of metroid I regocnized this to be a enjoyable game.

My question, as the thread name is suggesting, is: I',m wondering if it is possible to screw up the game permanently by using the grail to teleport out of certain situations or becouse of dying or due to certain traps?



For instance, I'm positive I have reached the "Labyrinth" from the "Moonlight" area, but when I teleported out and then tried to reach the level later, the ladder can not be reached - it seems to be permanently out of reach.


Also, after destroying the flying fire giant in the fire world, you enter a room with both a weapon - and walls that grows up from the ground potentially either killing or trapping you.

I teleported back to "the temple of the sun" since I somehow managed to get stuck in this room. And now when I go to the area the fire-giant is destroyed - and walls are still reaching the rooms roof. - meaning the way to the top of the room seems to be permanently blocked as I do not know how to "undo" this room. Is it impossible to reach the weapon now?

Also,

what determines if a save-location can be reached by the grail?
It apperas only some of them can be reached but I do not understand why only some of them can be reached. Is there a pattern?

[end of spoiler alert]

[Quint the Alligator Snapper]

You can mark spoilers by using [ spoiler] [/spoiler] tags (without the spaces).

First item: I am not sure.

Second item: Based on my playthrough of the old version, I think you're referring to a puzzle that lets you reach the level 2 whip. I think you can get the level 3 whip later, from a different puzzle, and skip this one entirely. I am not sure if it's possible to undo this puzzle, but it may be.

Third item: I think you are running into the grail points of backside fields, which can only be used under certain conditions. I think they require that you have equipped certain software.

[Vapor Dosh]

The only way to make the game truly unwinnable is to get to certain places without the Holy Grail. Missable items are not necessary to finish the game.

The passage from the Temple of Moonlight to the Twin Labyrinth can be destroyed, but it just means losing one route. You can still enter Twin Labyrinth from another location.

As for the Inferno Cavern location, yes, that one can be screwed up permanently. There is a way of resetting that puzzle (as well as two others that can also be screwed up) that was introduced in the remake, but it becomes available way later in the game. I think you should either reload an older save or ignore it, since you can still get the final whip upgrade from another puzzle anyway.

[Sicris]

You can lock yourself out of whip upgrades by teleporting, you won't be able to get them again until the end of the game at which point it won't be as useful.

You can lock yourself out of the golden shield as well, but since it's needed to beat the game there is a way of resetting the puzzle near end of the game.

There are at least 2 life gems which are permanently missable technically, but you can use a exploit to reach one of them. The other one is permanent no matter what.

One of the softwares avaliable in the game is missable and there is absolutely no way of recovering it if you do miss it.


This only applies to the remake, the original version most of these things can't be recovered no matter what.


As for the save point locations, all of them can be reached via the grail. The areas in the front side of the ruins are the default locations for the grail, if you want to reach the backside grails you need to have Future Development Company equipt, mirai.exe

[Quint the Alligator Snapper]

There are at least 2 life gems which are permanently missable technically, but you can use a exploit to reach one of them. The other one is permanent no matter what.

Which ones are these? I know of the one in the dimensional corridor.

[Sicris]

Originally posted by Quint S. Akemi:

There are at least 2 life gems which are permanently missable technically, but you can use a exploit to reach one of them. The other one is permanent no matter what.

Which ones are these? I know of the one in the dimensional corridor.

The one in shrine of the mother is missable, once it becomes the true shirne of the mother the chest disappears.

The dimentional corridor one can be exploited

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=axuHqh9AFlY

[Hugo]

Thanks guys. I reloaded in order to get the whip upgrade. As for the matter with the missing ladder, I have already reached the "other end" of the area, so this is not so serious.

[Hugo]

While I'm at it ... I suppose there is no way to tell how a certain boss, big or small, responds to certain weapons since there is no boss-o-meter. Other than the red flash indicating a "hit". And I suppose a blue flash means that a boss is invincible for one reason or another.
correct?

[Vil]

That's correct. However, there are no cases of enemies taking half damage from some things, double damage from others, etc. If X weapon with Y upgrades does Z damage to a regular enemy, it'll do Z damage to a boss or miniboss too.

So you can use higher-health regular enemies, the ones that don't just die in one or two hits to anything, as a way of testing how many hits a particular weapon takes to kill them. From there you can figure out approximately how hard things hit.

A few things are immune in certain circumstances or to certain weapons (in which case you're quite right that they'll flash blue to indicate that), and one miniboss has a regeneration mechanic if you haven't solved a certain puzzle yet.

[Traysandor]

Holy Grail Mechanics:

Once you find this item, you can scan Grail Tablets and freely warp between them. Also, once scanned, they become Quick Save points any time you warp between or pass by one you've already scanned.

Regardless of whether or not you've scanned the tablet, you can always save your game manually in front of any one.

The only ways the Holy Grail cannot teleport to a specific location (Note, contains spoilers):

A. You haven't scanned the Holy Grail Tablet for the respective area yet.
B. You are fighting one of the game's Guardians. The Holy Grail is sealed during those fights, and it is impossible to teleport out until you've killed the Guardian.
C. It is a Reverse Field Grail Tablet and requires the software mirai.exe to be found and turned on in order to warp there
D. Bonus Area: There is no Holy Grail Tablet in the Gate of Time if you unlock it. The closest Grail Tablet is in the Chamber of Extinction.
E. You have found your way into late-game area The Dimensional Corridor. Tiamat has sealed the Holy Grail in that area, and until you kill her, the Holy Grail will not work in that area
F. In the final part of the game: The Shrine of the Mother Tablet becomes a Reverse Field Tablet, and must be re-scanned in order to warp there again. Also of note, you will need mirai.exe turned on in order to warp to this location in the endgame.
G. Hell Temple: Hell Temple DOES NOT have a Grail Point. if you warp out, you will have to walk back from the closest Grail Point in the Gate of Guidance.
H. During the fight with the game's final boss, Mother, in uncovering Mother's true form the Holy Grail is "broken" and cannot be used for the rest of the game, including during the Escape sequence after you kill her.

Also of note, every Holy Grail Tablet in the game must be scanned at least once in order to complete the game. (The one at the Surface doesn't count)

[Hugo]

Thanks Traysandor.

I think my problem was that I did not understand that the worlds on the"back"-side requires spesific software. And early on, I failed to understand that you needed to scan the spot in order to make it teleportable.

[Taisetsu na Miko]

Originally posted by Sicris:

You can lock yourself out of the golden shield as well, but since it's needed to beat the game there is a way of resetting the puzzle near end of the game.

What's this thing about needing the Angel Shield? I beat the game and do not remember ever NEEDING it.

Anyway, I think that you will lose the game if you leave Skandi's battle and then save the game. (Oh wait, that was only on the original, not this remake version.)

[Hidden Distance]

Originally posted by jhalexm:

What's this thing about needing the Angel Shield? I beat the game and do not remember ever NEEDING it.

It's required to get the Vessel.