Featured dojos, an overview, problems and solutions

[KIREEK]

Note:

The timming is a coincidence (topic being made after the featued dojo results), this was planned a few days ago, only now i made the effort in making this topic. The original topic exists on the official forums and was made prior to any results.

Preface:

This is my opinion, informed by the knowledge I’ve gathered and my own credibility. I’m not here to attack individual users, though the hat may fit someone. If you're curious how I know this, it’s because content can be leaked by certain users or because I’ve exported entire Discord servers, allowing me to review long conversations at my leisure to understand context.

Overview:

Featured Dojos has evolved as an endgame challenge, undergoing many iterations. However, its problems stem from attempts to simplify something that inherently requires effort. For example, on Prime Time streams, dojo showcases have been reduced to pre-recorded videos rather than live visits. This is just one symptom of a deeper issue: DE seems disengaged from the process, occasionally outsourcing judgment to guest judges.

Problems:

1. Exploitation and Lack of Oversight:
   Players exploit this otherwise fun feature. When DE (or players) fail to catch ineligible entries, such as wrong-tier participation or copied builds, these dojos end up featured or even winning. Viewers praise them as "sublime," unaware the original work exists elsewhere, often superior. This creates a cascade of issues:
   
   The exploiter’s strategy involves cycling through username, clan name, tier, and images to slip past scrutiny. Some claim "inspiration" without disclosing how much is copied, leaving even dedicated decorators unsure of intent.
   
   
   • Exploiters cheat the system.
     
     
   • DE’s due diligence falters.
     
     
   • Decorators criticize DE privately but stay silent publicly, fostering resentment.
   
   
2. Bias in Guest Judges:
   Bias, whether for or against certain clans/users, is inevitable. Publicly, judgments are framed around decoration, but privately, motivations vary: personal grudges, alliances, or favoritism within shared Discord groups. This harms the contest’s credibility in two ways:
   
   
   • It undermines the contest’s integrity, as judges dismiss DE’s decisions entirely, believing only their involvement ensures legitimacy.
     
     
   • Rogue judges may tolerate toxic behavior, becoming targets for manipulation and spreading discord among other judges.
   
   
3. No Recourse After Featuring:
   Once a clan is featured, there’s no undo button. Streams can’t be deleted, contests canceled, or prizes revoked. Exploiters know this and exploit the system’s inertia.

Solutions:

This will require effort from everyone.

1. Remove Guest Judges:
   
   
   • Players can help flag copied rooms, but judgments should be DE’s responsibility. Public shaming (e.g., "user is a disgrace") isn’t productive; reports should go directly to the DE member overseeing the contest.
     Why?
     Even compliant entries face bias. Judges may dismiss work as "copied" based on past associations, pushing decorators to exploit the system further.
   
   
2. DE Must Step Up:
   
   
   • Flag ineligible clans: Prevent winning via name changes or "new participants" abuse. Apply this retroactively to stop repeat offenders (meaning clans) while allowing decorators to start fresh in new clans.
     
     
     
   • Visit dojos in-person: Don’t rely solely on pictures or videos. Take time to explore, even if it’s tedious. If overwhelmed, delegate more staff.
     
     
     
   • Prioritize consistency: Major updates clash with the contest’s 3-month cycle, but effort is non-negotiable. Decorators won’t voice this so I will.
   
   
   
3. Players Must Respect Boundaries:
   
   
   • Decorators tracking every clan’s move should help constructively. Report issues without weaponizing them to attack DE. It’s obnoxious, especially from guest judges.
     
     
     
   • I don’t envy DE staff enduring this toxicity from the very people they collaborate with.

Closing Thoughts:

Some may demand names, judge identities, or contest specifics, but my goal isn’t to tear people down, it’s to improve the system. Everyone plays a role, and moving forward, we’ll see who makes an effort.

Regardless, good luck to DE with the 12th Featured Dojo Contest.

[JJ, Professional Fool]

I don't understand what a rank means in a clan. I am in a rank 1 ghost clan, what does that even mean?

[xPEDx]

Originally posted by JJ, Professional Fool:

I don't understand what a rank means in a clan. I am in a rank 1 ghost clan, what does that even mean?

i guess its the Research level for the clan and members.
But im not realy sure , as im in ghost clan too but a higher level, Maybe Ghost is how many members too?

[KIREEK]

Originally posted by JJ, Professional Fool:

I don't understand what a rank means in a clan. I am in a rank 1 ghost clan, what does that even mean?

Certain rooms and researches give exp, the more you do them the more ranks you gain and as such the more stuff you can research.
When you start the game, you are also rank 0, you are able to use certain weapons, but not all of them, same thing for dojos.

[JJ, Professional Fool]

Gotta learn up some knowledge. I never visit so it might have new rooms or things. Idk.

[xPEDx]

My clan is almost fully researched just a few things to do. but im still called a ghost clan. However i am the only member in it now :)

[KIREEK]

Originally posted by xPEDx:

My clan is almost fully researched just a few things to do. but im still called a ghost clan. However i am the only member in it now :)

note that this topic is more towards the contest with featured dojos, dojos that get picked to be on the star chart for all players to see.

[Arch-Magos Wicked]

that's all cool and i appreciate you trying to improve the system but i'm noticing a very big lack of something

receipts. where's your evidence of judge bias' or copied dojo's? where's your evidence of people exploiting the system? the burden of proof is on *you* to provide with these claims so some bogus stuff like "Its obvious just look!" or "You can find the evidence very easily" don't cut it. *you* are claiming these things so its on *you* to provide the evidence of these claims

[KIREEK]

Originally posted by Arch-Magos Wicked:

that's all cool and i appreciate you trying to improve the system but i'm noticing a very big lack of something

receipts. where's your evidence of judge bias' or copied dojo's? where's your evidence of people exploiting the system? the burden of proof is on *you* to provide with these claims so some bogus stuff like "Its obvious just look!" or "You can find the evidence very easily" don't cut it. *you* are claiming these things so its on *you* to provide the evidence of these claims

Judge bias is present in many situations as they often talk among other decorators and certain clans/dojos are brought up for petty grudges (like being called out on something before) and so it doesn't take much effort that a clan in the alliance will always be more favorable that the clan with the guy that called you out.

Copied dojos (and players calling out on it) is present even on the last few official forum topics, if you search you will find not only the copied dojo's decorators mentioning the "inspiration", but you'll also see other decorators specifying exactly where the copies come from. (can edit later and add comments made by users, however, some comments have already been removed by DE on the official forums)
https://forums.warframe.com/topic/1438582-12-year-anniversary-dojo-showcase/#findComment-13244851

Note that DE, is the target audience here, not only i speak with the necessary credibility and knowledge, but DE has received over time complaints (in private) of entries that don't seem quite right, so DE is aware and can easily recognize the issues when someone applies as an Emergent clan twice and someone else makes that mention.

I can provide the content you seek, altough you might need to be specific, with the necessary censorship to prevent attacks on the guest judges

[TangAce]

the video versus live visit is really huge imo, live visit says a lot more than a video
they should also change categories a bit, but that may be hard to do
people decorating solo simply can't achieve same result as a group of person backed by an entire clan providing resources
talking about resources, it's really a big issue for decorators overall, decorating is already time consuming, and then you have to farm a lot for resources

10 years ago it wasn't an issue cause people were actually social in the game and clans were more than just a convenience for trading and getting certain gear

unfortunately those things are difficult to change, same with judging dojos, it's not easy cause there are people copying others, and how do you judge that ?

[KIREEK]

Originally posted by TangAce:

unfortunately those things are difficult to change, same with judging dojos, it's not easy cause there are people copying others, and how do you judge that ?

When the same users change things a tiny bit, it can be hard, even for advanced decorators it's a nightmare, digging up screenshots that are months old, acting as a colective to figure out if a single room is a copy or not and sometimes nobody is trully sure, all they know is that it is likey the same clan and likely the same users due to the word play on naming things, like the clan.

The issue is when in the process, they call DE incompetent for not figuring out a clan is doing those things and obviously these clans only mention "inspiration" when they are called out, by default they leave this info out.

If you applied as Emergent for example, very few would remeber your entry 3 months down the line if you apply as emergent again.

[xPEDx]

Originally posted by KIREEK:

Originally posted by xPEDx:

My clan is almost fully researched just a few things to do. but im still called a ghost clan. However i am the only member in it now :)

note that this topic is more towards the contest with featured dojos, dojos that get picked to be on the star chart for all players to see.

Note Taken .

[JediKnightSky]

DE does not ever look at these forums. Therefore it is clear you are not actually trying to hold honest discourse. As another said, all burden here is on you.

As yet nothing but conjecture and feelings are being offered. Nor do you get to ask people to go look elsewhere. That is called shifting the burden, and is a bad faith argument tactic.

[KIREEK]

Originally posted by JediKnightSky:

DE does not ever look at these forums. Therefore it is clear you are not actually trying to hold honest discourse. As another said, all burden here is on you.

As yet nothing but conjecture and feelings are being offered. Nor do you get to ask people to go look elsewhere. That is called shifting the burden, and is a bad faith argument tactic.

Note at the top, aka the 1st 3 lines of text respond to your statement.
Also keep in mind DE is aware of copied builds and other issues as the featured dojos contest has had posts removed in the past as it derailed in accusations and DE prefers to keep them private.
I understand you want the cake all baked up and ready to eat, but the point is not to inform you exclusively, it's to inform DE of things that are slipping past them, like the guest judges just being ......unfair, especially when DE appoints them to be guest judges to begin with.

In fact this is being brought up directly to them and i hope you're not implying i'm lying to them directly and lying to the entire DE staff that uses the official forums.