The game technically has a P2W element now.

[DaLagga]

This is a minor point but it does technically mean that people who pay money have an advantage over those that don't. You know those new synicate mods/weapons that allow you to build up affinity in order to deal an AoE and regen 25% of your health/energy? Well, those are affected by affinity boosters which require platinum in order to obtain on a regular basis. So because you can accumulate the required 2k affinity twice as fast with platinum purchases, the game is now technically P2W.

Again, it's a minor point, but DE have effectively opened the door for people with loads of cash to have a small advantage over those who simply don't. This is especially true when you consider the fact that it would cost ~$20 a month in plat just to maintain this bonus making it far too pricey for your typical gamer to afford. It is, however, exactly the kind of expense that "whales" have no problem with.

I can think of two possible counter-arguments that will arise, but they're false so I'll save everyone time and counter them right now.

1. But you can trade for plat without ever having to spend real money and use that to purchase affinity booster!

This argument fails because it's irrelevant. Just becauase you can technically trade for paid currency doesn't change the fact that it's still P2W. A lot of games, even those notorius for being P2W, have this functionality but that doesn't make them any less P2W. In fact, if we were to accept this absurd logic then even something like Eve: Online could be considered F2P simply because it's possible to obtain PLEX with in-game currency.

2. But you can get affinity boosters as drops from rare loot crates!

True, but those are incredibly rare and only last 30min. Even if you were to devote your entire playtime to finding loot crates, you'd never find them often enough to maintain your affinity bonus.

Edit:
Just to be perfectly clear, the reason this is a P2W mechanic is because, unlike everything else that costs plat, this isn't just a time saver. This gives you a small but tangible advantage during actual gameplay - an advantage that cannot be maintained without spending real money.

[[Meyo]Frakura]

Basically, just say that you are cheap, then move on.

[Mindhunter]

^

[DaLagga]

Publicado originalmente por MeyoFrakura:

Basically, just say that you are cheap, then move on.

Cheap? Maintaining an affinity booster would cost you about $20 a month. Even P2P MMO's don't charge that steep of a monthly fee.

I tell ya what. How about if you just send me a check for $20 a month to cover the costs for the oxygen you consume. Oh, what's that? You don't want to pay me for something that should be free? I guess you're just cheap then.

[[Meyo]Frakura]

Publicado originalmente por DaLagga:

Publicado originalmente por MeyoFrakura:

Basically, just say that you are cheap, then move on.

Cheap? Maintaining an affinity booster would cost you about $20 a month. Even P2P MMO's don't charge that steep of a monthly fee.

I tell ya what. How about if you just send me a check for $20 a month to cover the costs for the oxygen you consume. Oh, what's that? You don't want to pay me for something that should be free? I guess you're just cheap then.

Cheap and dumb, not the best combo.

[DaLagga]

Publicado originalmente por MeyoFrakura:

Publicado originalmente por DaLagga:

Cheap? Maintaining an affinity booster would cost you about $20 a month. Even P2P MMO's don't charge that steep of a monthly fee.

I tell ya what. How about if you just send me a check for $20 a month to cover the costs for the oxygen you consume. Oh, what's that? You don't want to pay me for something that should be free? I guess you're just cheap then.

Cheap and dumb, not the best combo.

In other words, you don't have a counter-argument and would instead rather resort to petty insults in order to try to dismiss the issue.

[Wiggly]

Publicado originalmente por DaLagga:

Publicado originalmente por MeyoFrakura:

Basically, just say that you are cheap, then move on.

Cheap? Maintaining an affinity booster would cost you about $20 a month. Even P2P MMO's don't charge that steep of a monthly fee.

I tell ya what. How about if you just send me a check for $20 a month to cover the costs for the oxygen you consume. Oh, what's that? You don't want to pay me for something that should be free? I guess you're just cheap then.

You just related a virtual time saver to oxygen. I feel that you're just being nit picky about something meant to give a push. You can't compare something like a booster to a subscription, because one isn't manadatory.

I fail to understand how gaining an advantage that was paid for affects your gameplay in a PVE oriented game, this one specifically. Even then, syndicate standing has a daily limit.

[[Meyo]Frakura]

Publicado originalmente por DaLagga:

Publicado originalmente por MeyoFrakura:

Cheap and dumb, not the best combo.

In other words, you don't have a counter-argument and would instead rather resort to petty insults in order to try to dismiss the issue.

Ok, heres a logical counter-argument.

First of, buying affinity booster is your choice, it only make you progress the game faster.

Second, do you really just spend your money on this single game ?

Thirdly, there are platinum sales, you can get a 20$ Platinum package for less.

Fourthly, not all game are designed the same, the reason why some game booster are cheaper is because of the way you can farm in them.

Lastly, do you even play anything else ?

[Maxscart]

Maintaining affinity and credit boosters, through the most optimal way which is Prime Accessories, costs about 8 dollars a month for each, and that's not taking into consideration the other items in the pack. In fact, I totally forgot about the platinum sales. One of those can probably get one for even cheaper. Either way, I just cut into half your 20 dollar claim. Easily.

Syndicates have a cap per day. Using a booster does not allow you to exceed that limit. You simply get there twice as fast. It saves time, just as platinum always has since the game started.

You seem to have little knowledge on prices, efficiency, and mechanics of the game which leads to you throwing around false statements. Do some research before shouting it as a fact.

Publicado originalmente por DaLagga:

I tell ya what. How about if you just send me a check for $20 a month to cover the costs for the oxygen you consume. Oh, what's that? You don't want to pay me for something that should be free? I guess you're just cheap then.

Are you serious? This has to be one of the most ridiculous analogies someone could make. Oxygen is free and is not a service. Double affinity is not free and IS a service. By paying for an affinity booster, you are paying for the right to get twice as much. Oxygen is not only a real life item, but also freely available whenever.

So do you believe that double affinity should be free, so that I can laugh?

[Ivara Ara]

Publicado originalmente por LuLz. Maxscart:

Maintaining affinity and credit boosters, through the most optimal way which is Prime Accessories, costs about 8 dollars a month for each, and that's not taking into consideration the other items in the pack.

Syndicates have a cap per day. Using a booster does not allow you to exceed that limit. You simply get there twice as fast. It saves time, just as platinum always has since the game started.

I honestly rarely cap out at rank 16, done it so almost. But then i would just feel...empty?
Also threads like this are useless.

[GrapplerBot]

The OP is talking about Syndicate weapon mod procs, which are based on affinity gains, and are affected by affinity boosters. He is NOT talking about farming for Syndicate rep. His argument is that the bonus affinity gained to activate Syndicate effects makes them Pay-To-Win.

To which I respond: no, it's not, because of how it works.

At max mod rank, you need 1k affinity to proc the Syndicate effect. 1k. That's not much at all.

There's a cooldown on how often the effect can proc, limiting it to once every 10 seconds, iirc.

At low levels, it'll take a while to get enough affinity to fill the bar and get the effect, and it will fill much faster if you have an affinity booster, BUT... the effect in low level missions is pointless since you won't need the effect and any enemies killed by the blast would have been killed instantly by your other gear anyway. There's no real benefit to using a booster for the effect in low level missions.

At high levels, where the effects can actually matter, you get 1k affinity, proccing the effect, in 3-4 kills, 1 if you kill an Eximus. If you're with a group that's killing enemies, you proc it so fast that the difference between a person using a booster and a person without a booster is somewhere along the lines of half a second, at most. There's no benefit for using a booster for the effect in high level missions.

So therefore, there is no real point in getting a booster for the effects. The only places where it'll speed affinity gain enough to a point where it actually makes a noticeable difference in proc frequency is the place where you don't get any benefits from proc frequency.

[Ivara Ara]

Publicado originalmente por DaLagga:

Publicado originalmente por MeyoFrakura:

Basically, just say that you are cheap, then move on.

I tell ya what. How about if you just send me a check for $20 a month to cover the costs for the oxygen you consume. Oh, what's that? You don't want to pay me for something that should be free? I guess you're just cheap then.

What...did i seriously just read that?! WHAT?! Oh my god, i did not think someone could be so...slow, and that is putting it lightly. I'm done, that settles it, i can't stop laughing.

[Bizenti]

Truthfully, his point about Warframe being considered as a P2W game is a valid argument in the terms of "Advantageous" standpoints above the rest. But consider this, Warframe (Or atleast how it appears to myself in general) is a game focused more around farming, grinding, and tedious crafting than it is about the purchasing and utilizing of the platinum currency that Warframe itself posesses. What would be the initial goal of Warframe if the only actual work you put into it was the purchasing and spending of plat? I personally find it much more captivating to enjoy the game by actually farming items to earn or craft other items, contrasted to the alternative of just purchasing those items and proclaiming the bland statement "I NOW POSESS THIS ITEM!". All in all, i agree on the fact that items can just be bought to give you an advatage, but why not just play the game while farming at the same time? That previous statement is Warframe in a nutshell. There, you have, as of now, witnessed my 2 cents.

[Serverus]

Threads like this really make me question the intelligence of people nowadays....

This game is IN NO WAY P2W. So what if affinity boosters affect the gain of syndicate reputation? You're not required to spend money on it; therefore, it is NOT a P2W mechanic. not only that, but you can gain reputation simply by playing missions.

So.... your arguments are invalid. There is nothing game-affecting that is gainable only through platinum purchases. The ONLY game-affecting items that you had to pay for were Excalibur Prime, the Lato Prime, and the Skana Prime. But that was because they were part of the Founders' Program. Other than that, every warframe, every weapon, every sentinel... it can all be gained simply by playing.

And i repeat, SO CAN SYNDICATE REPUTATION. So, anymore arguments? Because as far as me and everyone else is concerned, you're done. This game is, in no way, P2W.

[Ivara Ara]

Publicado originalmente por ♠Nakatsuka♠:

Truthfully, his point about Warframe being considered as a P2W game is a valid argument in the terms of "Advantageous" standpoints above the rest. But consider this, Warframe (Or atleast how it appears to myself in general) is a game focused more around farming, grinding, and tedious crafting than it is about the purchasing and utilizing of the platinum currency that Warframe itself posesses. What would be the initial goal of Warframe if the only actual work you put into it was the purchasing and spending of plat? I personally find it much more captivating to enjoy the game by actually farming items to earn or craft other items, contrasted to the alternative of just purchasing those items and proclaiming the bland statement "I NOW POSESS THIS ITEM!". All in all, i agree on the fact that items can just be bought to give you an advatage, but why not just play the game while farming at the same time? That previous statement is Warframe in a nutshell. There, you have, as of now, witnessed my 2 cents.

OP is on about syndicate weps and affinity boosters, and the term p2w does not exactly work in a game like Warframe. Not exactly any valid competative side in terms of ''this high level player will kill me''. It is pay for convinience more then it is P2W as you say. Because even so, plenty of high end stuff are locked mastery wise, so you must have ranked up plenty of things till then. And buying somehting does not yield you points instantly... Its just a ''now i don't have to grind and farm for this, time to level it up.''

[Felix]

It gives me cancer when people cant distingush Pay 2 Win from Pay 2 Convenience.

Yes,having an affinity booster with a Syndicate mod/weapon equiped gives you the buff faster...so what? It's not pay 2 win because even without the damage boost you can kill anything and the 25% health boost helps your team aswell.Saying that this gives you an "advantage" is stupid,and you should feel stupid for mentioning Pay 2 Win in a purely Co-Op game which lets you make every character and make every weapon and non-cosmetic item with in-game resources and relative ease.