Vivergate: READ IT!

[flamedance58]

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/345295-vivergate-vent-radioactive-gas-yn/#entry3857074

Honored Tenno,

Well, we screwed that one up, didn’t we? In our panic to address exploits we’ve rolled out some half-baked changes, and didn’t test them nearly enough. Worse - we didn’t communicate the changes and explain the rationale.

We’ve plugged some holes and we’re running out of fingers. I’m sorry you had to see all of this, its quite embarrassing. I’m sure you’re frustrated. I am deeply sorry for messing up your game.

Here’s where we’re at:

We’re going to do some map fixes AND we’re going to fix a few bugs with line of sight changes and let it ride until we have a cohesive and well communicated set of changes to roll out.

Our ‘press 4 to win’ ultimates are metered primarily by the supply of energy. Finding an energy loophole means that Homer’s drinking bird can play the game for you. That is not team synergy. That is just broken.

This fall, starting with Excalibur, we’ve begun to take a hard look at these ‘X-Ray AOE’ abilities and wonder if we can bring more elements of skill back in. That’s the short answer to ‘why the hell is DE messing with us’. Homer’s drinking bird should not play the game for you.

We will be changing the dreaded map somewhat today… the level team has refused to grant my request of making Viver an insta-kill-lava-death-pit. Instead, spawning will be staggered to help address enemy clumps, but again - ‘everyone within 80 meters dies with keyboard macro’ is a larger issue than any one particular map. I’d be curious what your thoughts are.

I know yesterday’s changes have exposed deep frustrations from our Tenno - from Syndicates to mission types, and poetically it all began with our first Warframe: Excalibur. With your voices ringing in our ears we intend to remedy as soon as possible. I look forward to reading your reactions to the next series of hotfixes (I have my asbestos underpants on now).

YYY YY YY YYYYYYY YYY
(-DE_Steve)

(Ninja edit after reading thread)

Syndicate Standing is absolutely under the surgical laser. It's screaming.

With abilities, again, things are not staying as they are currently - as I said above *until we have a cohesive set of changes* We're going to try to entangle this and do it once without driving like my grandma on an icy road.

Syndicates will get cooler over time. It was some character and opposition. It is not a 'whole new way to play' and never was pitched as such. It's a layer, a purpose, to the existing and future game-modes we are adding.

[Edit] Thanks to all the users who saw this and posted the link around the Steam forums and thus gave it more attention.

[Dusklite]

Thanks to Suzaku for posting this in another thread as well. ^^

[Ivara Ara]

Originally posted by flamedance58:

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/345295-vivergate-vent-radioactive-gas-yn/#entry3857074

Honored Tenno,

Well, we screwed that one up, didn’t we? In our panic to address exploits we’ve rolled out some half-baked changes, and didn’t test them nearly enough. Worse - we didn’t communicate the changes and explain the rationale.

We’ve plugged some holes and we’re running out of fingers. I’m sorry you had to see all of this, its quite embarrassing. I’m sure you’re frustrated. I am deeply sorry for messing up your game.

Here’s where we’re at:

We’re going to do some map fixes AND we’re going to fix a few bugs with line of sight changes and let it ride until we have a cohesive and well communicated set of changes to roll out.

Our ‘press 4 to win’ ultimates are metered primarily by the supply of energy. Finding an energy loophole means that Homer’s drinking bird can play the game for you. That is not team synergy. That is just broken.

This fall, starting with Excalibur, we’ve begun to take a hard look at these ‘X-Ray AOE’ abilities and wonder if we can bring more elements of skill back in. That’s the short answer to ‘why the hell is DE messing with us’. Homer’s drinking bird should not play the game for you.

We will be changing the dreaded map somewhat today… the level team has refused to grant my request of making Viver an insta-kill-lava-death-pit. Instead, spawning will be staggered to help address enemy clumps, but again - ‘everyone within 80 meters dies with keyboard macro’ is a larger issue than any one particular map. I’d be curious what your thoughts are.

I know yesterday’s changes have exposed deep frustrations from our Tenno - from Syndicates to mission types, and poetically it all began with our first Warframe: Excalibur. With your voices ringing in our ears we intend to remedy as soon as possible. I look forward to reading your reactions to the next series of hotfixes (I have my asbestos underpants on now).

YYY YY YY YYYYYYY YYY
(-DE_Steve)

(Ninja edit after reading thread)

Syndicate Standing is absolutely under the surgical laser. It's screaming.

With abilities, again, things are not staying as they are currently - as I said above *until we have a cohesive set of changes* We're going to try to entangle this and do it once without driving like my grandma on an icy road.

Syndicates will get cooler over time. It was some character and opposition. It is not a 'whole new way to play' and never was pitched as such. It's a layer, a purpose, to the existing and future game-modes we are adding.

[Edit] Thanks to Booben for posting this in another thread.

I am not the one that should be taking credit, i was just forwarding the link Suzaku posted.

[Vulbjorn]

You know how DE could get rid of all that "loot cave" hassle? Get rid of standing system (especially tied to EXP, it's a big no no). Give lower ranks better rewards. Replace the standing with Tokens being rewarded for specific syndicate mission/ nightmare/ Void missions/ rare drop from enemies or for completing a specific objective during the mission.
Make top tier rewards less signifact, but more flashy. Instead of warframe mods - new syndicate specific syandanas. Skins. Sashimonos etc.
Make some sort of reward=difficulty system. Some sort of Expected powerlevel and Actual powerlevel. If you go below Expected level (using weak guns in harder missions) - you get token multiplier.
Quoting Mogamu from in his new video - give veteran players some advantage, tie it with mastery rank. It will give it at least some purpose.

Warframe is a complicated game. It... just is. It's big and it's complicated. New content can't be just plopped in (like Syndicates did), it has to be carefully worked in, so it not only works with game mechanics well, but also players' expectations and abilities. I know a lot of people who just kinda gave up on all this Syndicate farming thing, just getting it passively in hopes that it will be one day filled.

Oh, and, obviously, nerfing frames is not a way to do it. "Panic decision" could be considered deleting a node for some time until you figured out how to make it work. Excalibur is already not the bestest golden guy in town (despite being poster-boy), Mag was powerful in certain missions, but really underpowered in others, Trinity's Energy Vampire's entire purpose was to grant her teammates energy restoration, how it could be considered "energy loophole" is beyond me.

This whole situation happened not because someone found exploit and ... well, exploited it. It happened because the system was flawed from the start.

[Drago]

I agree with the nerfs seeming like a 'panic decision' as well. DE_Steve mentioned running out of fingers used to plug the holes; but as mentioned in other threads, and by more experienced people than I, players did not create holes to plug. The situation of Viver being used as a dedicated farming spot is nothing new. While it was apparently the most effecient, the real issue is the syndicate system requiring silly amounts of pain for low reward. I thought that the idea raised, on the official forums and here, about tying rep gain to mission success and difficulty seems like a better solution than what is being done.

Viver uses the standard Corpus interception tileset, the same used for Corpus ship defense missions. The map, I believe, is not the real issue even for why it is used for obtaining rep and affinity; the real issue is that players are feeling forced into a situaion where the only ways of getting the 'carrot' are less effecient than just letting the enemies come to be slaughtered. The same basic tactic can be used on any mission type that has infinite enemies and a limited number of close spawn points.

At the end of the day I feel the problems created are by rash decision making from DE not the players. I think that the LoS issue is being used as a red herring of sorts since the map and ability to kill using some of those abilities already existed and did not break the play experience. There will always be another VIver, Loot Cave, or Cow level. The important thing to take away is why are these situations perferrable to the desired play interaction for the player and adjusting game design to pull the game one way or another more in-line with both player and designer expectations.

[Silverbird]

Syndicate doesnt really bother me right now....if they didn't want syndicate to be a grindfest, why did they tie it to experience?
they could've easily kept it to daily missions only, and quadrupled the current rewards for doing the missions themselves...
and they could require a certain mastery ranking to level the syndicate you're in, that way people with 4 or 5 mastery wont necessarily race ahead of all of the players with 15+ mastery...

[Drago]

All good suggestions!