Boss Design: Bored of this game

[Boss]

Say what you will of inferior titles like First Descendant, but they were more fun than I've had in 99% of the "difficult" content of this game.

I'll preface this by saying that I full understand that I, too, have almost no idea how to fix the problem Warframe's dev team have introduced over years and years of content, but of ANY MMO (or pseudo MMO) on the market, this game has single-handedly the worst "dungeons", "high level content", and "boss designs" to have ever existed.

They're dead in 2 seconds, or you do no damage and it's a slog; there's zero in between.

Only the Eidolons on early release were any fun, with having to actually build up parties and communicate. Do they EVER have plans of addressing this? Or are they going to just continue with the cycle of feature bloat?

(Not saying things like Railjack weren't fun, but it feels like brief distractions that keep my attention for a little while before all the unaddressed issues just make me quit again)

[AYAYA]

Are you talking about, like, The Sergeant and Captain Vor? Or do you mean The Fragmented One and H-09 Efervon Tank?
The 2013-era bosses and current-era bosses are a lot different. Completely different design philosophies. Gotta be clear.

[Boss]

Originally posted by AYAYA:

Are you talking about, like, The Sergeant and Captain Vor? Or do you mean The Fragmented One and H-09 Efervon Tank?
The 2013-era bosses and current-era bosses are a lot different. Completely different design philosophies. Gotta be clear.

This feels like an extremely bad faith statement. You know damned well that 99% of the bosses aren't the tank or Fragmented one, that the Fortuna Orb exists. The bird Eidolon, necromechs and literally everything else.

I haven't tried the newest content yet. And if they're fantastic, great; the majority of the game is a slog, especially for new player friends.

Tiny weakpoint spots, invulnerability phases, grotesque HP pools and massive DR is not the way to make engaging games. Even Duviri failed expectations, though there was a semblance of something good there.

And again:
Worst design for bosses than ANY other mmo game. I'd love to hear counter points; gimme an example of something that remotely compares to other MMOs.

[Blaze]

Unfortunately it is a very difficult thing to fix, a lot of the bosses are very old designs and never been updated. Like you said most of the time the bosses will die in seconds or take a long time. At the time they were released- they were balanced fairly but not unreasonable but as the years gone by and new things were introduced they were left in the dust.

There are some very good boss designs that you mentioned and more that you didn't but yeah, most of the bosses are outdated. I'm hoping that now that the current main story arc is over that DE will focus on revisiting old content and updating that. But who knows?

You know it is possible for them to make the old bosses actually fun, look at the new Jackal for example: A very old boss that was reworked to what it is now and it's really cool to experience, but it's weird that this one boss is so cool, and then you have all these other bosses further along the star chart that are awful.

[SoulReaperAxel]

tfd has bad gameplay

[BloodyRedOso]

I mean, all TFD really has that's keeping it around is the skimpy female stuff they have. Other than that, there's literally nothing redeeming about TFD. And I've played the beta, technical test, etc.

[Razer]

Never see any suggestions in topics like this. Things that work for various levels of power. Only complaints. Pointless topic.

[Wandering Flare]

The issue isn't the boss design but the fact the game has reached a point where we've been given so much power that there is nothing the devs can throw at us that is remotely difficult without gimping us, EDA being the prime example. Even the special bosses on SP - Fragmented One and Apex tank - take just a bit of building to become trivial and dead in a matter of seconds with minimal risk of going down, let alone dying.

For the bosses to become a threat again the game would have to be entirely reworked, plummeting the player power into the ground, and nobody but a select few will be satisfied with such a change.

[Razer]

Originally posted by Wandering Flare:

The issue isn't the boss design but the fact the game has reached a point where we've been given so much power that there is nothing the devs can throw at us that is remotely difficult without gimping us, EDA being the prime example. Even the special bosses on SP - Fragmented One and Apex tank - take just a bit of building to become trivial and dead in a matter of seconds with minimal risk of going down, let alone dying.

For the bosses to become a threat again the game would have to be entirely reworked, plummeting the player power into the ground, and nobody but a select few will be satisfied with such a change.

Except the worst part is that people complain like this:

Im invulnerable, this is boring
Boss ignores defenses
Poor boss design, i cant use what ive built!

Boss is oneshot. Boring!
Damage attenuation and boss stages
Cant oneshot boss! Poor boss design!

Yet no one provides a solution. No one. Only crying.

[TheTool]

This is why I have been asking for an infinite random Boss Rush mode with ALL bosses from game, including Eidolons, for awhile.
Make it like circuit where each next boss round scales up and let players decide to stay or leave after each round.
9999 Lephantis! Let's go!

[Wandering Flare]

Originally posted by Razer:

Originally posted by Wandering Flare:

The issue isn't the boss design but the fact the game has reached a point where we've been given so much power that there is nothing the devs can throw at us that is remotely difficult without gimping us, EDA being the prime example. Even the special bosses on SP - Fragmented One and Apex tank - take just a bit of building to become trivial and dead in a matter of seconds with minimal risk of going down, let alone dying.

For the bosses to become a threat again the game would have to be entirely reworked, plummeting the player power into the ground, and nobody but a select few will be satisfied with such a change.

Except the worst part is that people complain like this:

Im invulnerable, this is boring
Boss ignores defenses
Poor boss design, i cant use what ive built!

Boss is oneshot. Boring!
Damage attenuation and boss stages
Cant oneshot boss! Poor boss design!

Yet no one provides a solution. No one. Only crying.

Warframe forums are essentially just a stage for different groups of people to complain whenever their specific view for the game isn't what they get. Same for the updates in general, if it's more Warframe people complain DE doesn't do anything new, if it's something new people complain DE should be just doing more Warframe instead.

[PoisonLemon]

Originally posted by Boss:

.....

They're dead in 2 seconds, or you do no damage and it's a slog; there's zero in between.

Tiny weakpoint spots, invulnerability phases, grotesque HP pools and massive DR is not the way to make engaging games. ......

......

I don't understand what's your point bring TFD in for.
This applies to both game. They are no better then WF does.

This is more less a Musou style game, If you looking for long engaging boss fight that required tactics or raid-like multiplayer experience. You are looking at a wrong game.

[Societas]

Originally posted by TheTool:

This is why I have been asking for an infinite random Boss Rush mode with ALL bosses from game, including Eidolons, for awhile.
Make it like circuit where each next boss round scales up and let players decide to stay or leave after each round.
9999 Lephantis! Let's go!

Make it the 3rd tier activity of Sanctuary Onslaught. Virtual Bosses in a holodeck like arena.
So you have no story/lore concerns and could even spawn multiple of the same boss.

Could even be a hook for later story elements, "training" synthesis copies of the bosses infinitely against Tenno.

[Electi]

as someone who started at 2013, going to explain you why feel so.
I. We remind ourselfs what we have
1. Game overbloated over years.
2. You would never fulfill completionists wet-dream of having everything maxed out,100% codex done etc. forget it.
3. Purple mods exist.
4. Potato into form into potato into ultragigaprime mod etc.
5. This turned out as grinding game.
6. Game went wide instead of deep.
7. PvP is dead and no clans fight/monorails etc.

II. Now lets answer our questions:
1.worst "dungeons" - Well dungeons are generated with exited parts glued together.
Why don't you like it? Well because sometimes you see same repetitive parts. Sometimes they long, sometimes they short. You already know secret places, already have a lot of mods, presumably primed, with potatoes and forms, in prime warframe.
You have to remember your goal of entering the map. (Keep it in mind)
2. "high level content" - After glorious old times of sitting 8+ hours in a pipe, or fighting omegalul level mobs that oneshot everything. It is well established that there is 2 ways of beating any kind of high level mobs. First is to proc statuses like crazy cause it is % wipe, or some frame shenanigans, depending on who we talk about. So we came to a conclusion we are able to be unkillable and to kill everything and of every amount of hp/armor/shield and combined. So there is no enemy we could force game to produce that we cannot kill.
3. "boss designs"
Game originally is not about killing bosses. If you remember, you could only clean few planets, some had bosses, you got some other frame parts, you made them, and this is it.
Game is about your team vs pve to complete mission, and enemies are obsticles.
If you compare with 2013 year bosses, I think current game(which I has not played for a few years I think) has way better situation about it.

If you strip down all your mods from frames and weapons, you will feel quite resistance, and count shots that you take and give.

You're simply overpowered for most of the time, and nobody asked you to do it.
Game mechanic knowledge allow you to be a menance, which tenno supposed to be by lore.

Lets take a look what we can do to make bosses more challanging, not concidering HP/resistances, because that is solved by your mods and gunz:
1.You're required to move around to beat boss. Like it retreats, and you need to parcour your way to next area, or solve puzzles.
2.You're in need of some items from level.
3.You need to do some minigames to disable/enable something to beat boss.
4.Different tasks that should be done simultaneously by your teammates.
5.Use bosses equipment to damage boss
6.Use enviourment to beat boss.

What would be great, but they cannot do it:
1.Make use of different warframes, so you're required to have a specific warframe, and it's power to beat the boss.
2.Make use of some specific gun.
3.Make use of guardians/dog/cat or their specific type.
4.Make use of shavzin

What we already have:
Stages
Voulnurable parts
Bring a crafted item
Use/have archwing (if that still a thing)
Use kid's arm-gun

Most boss fights in MMO are lame from my perspective because:
1.They are not your size.
2.Massive waste of time doing same again and again.
3.Your hits leave no trace, they just move hp bar, then you see cutscene.
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My personal best solution would be to make it like they did with pvp, dump the mods.
Make stats, weapon, damage is % based, static, but make more parts on models, and a few layers, like armor and internal organs. And finally go wide in gameplay mechanics, instead of deep numbers. So noobs and pros would be different not in gear, but in knowledge and sheer numbers of available approaches to solve problems. But that would be completely different game.
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[Wandering Flare]

Originally posted by Electi:

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My personal best solution would be to make it like they did with pvp, dump the mods.
Make stats, weapon, damage is % based, static, but make more parts on models, and a few layers, like armor and internal organs. And finally go wide in gameplay mechanics, instead of deep numbers. So noobs and pros would be different not in gear, but in knowledge and sheer numbers of available approaches to solve problems. But that would be completely different game.
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Considering the reception of EDA, while an interesting concept, even if DE could make it work as part of Warframe - perhaps by making bosses with Void Interference in their arenas -, people would lynch them for daring to take away their power.

[MekaDovah]

Originally posted by Wandering Flare:

Considering the reception of EDA, while an interesting concept, even if DE could make it work as part of Warframe - perhaps by making bosses with Void Interference in their arenas -, people would lynch them for daring to take away their power.

The various times they do just take away our power by making us play someone else for quests is already annoying because what was the point of all those years of acquiring that stuff to begin with?

All live service games keep players on board with the acquisition of power. If not mods, it's something else. None of them offer anything else to acquire that's worth the grind otherwise. Invalidating the game's only purpose for being renders everything about it pointless. Invalidating it after over a decade would even worse.

If the only way to "improve" the game and make it "more challenging" in people's eyes is to effectively destroy it, maybe that's a sign that people who feel that way have played this kind of grind game enough and need to go do something else. All grind games are repetitive and everyone gets used to and bored of repetition.