Don't listen to anyone about "Bad Frames"

[Redeyeflight]

Go look at every top 10, tier list, comment on wikis and forums, and you'll find a common theme.

Most of the player base that talks about such things seems to rank frames based on how close their kit is to Saryn. The closer a frame is to being able to hit one button, kill everything, and leave the map, the higher it will be ranked by the players.

It's because this game is old. Most of the people playing it aren't having fun anymore. They are playing from a sense of habit, a desire to recapture that first year of dopamine release, because they make content for the game, because their friends still play, or because they spent a lot of money and don't want to feel like they wasted it.

These players are just looking to get it over with. "Get what over with?" you might ask? Anything they are doing in the game. When it starts they want it over. Now.

For these people any frame they see in their squad that is not a max damage easy mode frame is another five minutes they are going to have to spend playing Warframe. Doesn't matter if certain frames actually make the mission easier. Easier, better, more fun. This is not what these vets are looking for.

They are trying to log off as fast as they can.

So don't listen to the tier lists. If a frame looks cool to you, build / buy it. If you like it main it.

This game is a unicorn in that there really are no bad frames. Everything is good in some way.

If you have trouble finding people who actually WANT to be playing Warframe, hit me up.

[PyroMail.com]

If you want my humble opinion as a 3.000+ hours veteran, I don't even think Saryn is a meta Warframe as of now. I mean sure, you can slap her Toxic Lash on your weapon and go on a killing spree having a good time but everything above level 50 won't be falling apart from your 1 and 4 for solely existing. Finding the right mix of ability strength, duration and cost management without risking getting under the bus from a trooper is still a difficult endeavor.

But maybe I'm a bit biased because I play Frost like no other Warframe. Flexible, durable, good at defending objectives other than "just kill everything". Sometimes you just want to stack overguard (although not as hard as Dante) and help the team by immobilizing and debuffing enemies.

Though I gotta say I've been enjoying Lavos, Gyre and Grendel recently. Lavos is practically effective against every faction, Gyre is very self-sustaining with her Augment resetting her 3 and 4 and playing pinball with enemies as Grendel never gets old once you get the taste of it.

[TheTool]

I agree. The Torid is trash.

[MekaDovah]

As someone who has been around since we only had two tilesets, zoren-coptering, combat formation bravo, and a stamina meter, I have never given a crap about meta. Sure, I build to kill with as much damage as possible, and I often lean towards what's convenient, but it's what's convenient for me.

And for me, efficient is meaningless if it's also tedious and tiresome. I never had a gaming mentality of treating everything like a world record speedrun attempt with every fraction of a second being too precious to waste. Twitchy style gameplay of two dozen inputs a second is tiresome and exhausting. And I never could stand being told what to do by some blowhard who thinks they're all that because they crunched some numbers.

I'll look up advice when I want to, but only when I want to, and even then, I'm often adapting principles of a build (or just a part I like) rather than copying them wholesale to better fit them into my playstyle. If I did copy the entire build, it's because it suited me to begin with. If it doesn't, I ignore it.

Meta is boring. Doing my own thing is more fun and satisfying. Makes the grind more bearable. Makes the effort feel worthwhile because it's mine, not me just doing what someone else wants.

So I load up my Valkyr Prime (cause she looks cool), bust out the Nataruk (hits hards, but also bows are fun and more satisfying to land hits with than guns), go at my leisurely pace for an hour or two, and then I'm done for the day. That's how I've always played and will continue to play even after WF.

[Daniel]

A veteran does not need tier lists.

A new player does need a tier list. New players can't afford expensive builds, doesn't have 100 formas, good weapons, arcanes, focus schools.

Take Yareli as an example, a veteran can maker her a walking Ocucor with a lot of resources ofc.

Imagine a new player purchasing Yareli with platinum because someone recommended her as a good Warframe. However, this player lacks the necessary mods to boost her survivability and doesn't have strong weapons to compensate for her low damage. As a result, they’ll quickly hit a wall, possibly even before SP. In contrast, S-tier frames like Xaku don’t require specific weapons to progress. They offer solid survivability with minimal investment, making them much more beginner-friendly and accessible for any player to use effectively.

Yareli is a F tier for new players and can be an S if played by a veteran.

Xaku is a S tier for new players and veterans.

[tv]

the community is brainwashing every new player into playing rhino/ volt/ revanant, wukong and ignis wraith, zenurik. the same ♥♥♥♥ over and over. I didn't even bother watching Kengineer's new series.

[Tenz]

Play the frame you want, who cares what your using.

[MekaDovah]

Originally posted by tv:

the community is brainwashing every new player into playing rhino/ volt/ revanant, wukong and ignis wraith, zenurik. the same ♥♥♥♥ over and over. I didn't even bother watching Kengineer's new series.

Name one gaming community that isn't obsessed with tier lists and min-maxing. Every community I've seen has had this issue. Even non-gaming ones.

[Redeyeflight]

Originally posted by Daniel:

A veteran does not need tier lists.

A new player does need a tier list. New players can't afford expensive builds, doesn't have 100 formas, good weapons, arcanes, focus schools.

Take Yareli as an example, a veteran can maker her a walking Ocucor with a lot of resources ofc.

Imagine a new player purchasing Yareli with platinum because someone recommended her as a good Warframe. However, this player lacks the necessary mods to boost her survivability and doesn't have strong weapons to compensate for her low damage. As a result, they’ll quickly hit a wall, possibly even before SP. In contrast, S-tier frames like Xaku don’t require specific weapons to progress. They offer solid survivability with minimal investment, making them much more beginner-friendly and accessible for any player to use effectively.

Yareli is a F tier for new players and can be an S if played by a veteran.

Xaku is a S tier for new players and veterans.

Both Xaku and Yareli are F- tier if I'm not having fun playing them.

[MooCows]

Originally posted by Daniel:

Imagine a new player purchasing Yareli with platinum because someone recommended her as a good Warframe. However, this player lacks the necessary mods to boost her survivability and doesn't have strong weapons to compensate for her low damage.

I'd say Yareli is generally a better pick for new players than Xaku:

The damage vuln from Yareli's 1 will help even most garbage weapons do decent damage and is able to effect the majority of enemies - even many that it can't lift/cc, such as those with overguard or acolytes. The cc is also nice since it reduces the number of immediate threats she's facing.

Her passive likewise helps her weapons do damage, with an effectively permanent 200% boost to crit chance on any secondary weapon she equips. This and her 1 make her better suited to leveling up junk for mastery than many frames are.

Her 2, whether you use its augments or not, gives 90% DR and can be double-cast for a long (~4 second) invuln period on demand. Essentially removing the need for Rolling Guard so long as you have energy.

If you don't have the mods to build an effective Yareli, you very likely can't build an effective Xaku either. Xaku is actually more fragile, and the damage scaling on Grasp shines best in endurance / level cap content that most new players won't be engaging with.

So, back to the OP's point: There really aren't any terrible frames except the ones you don't have fun using. If you really like a frame, you can most likely find a way to make it work. Even as a new player.

[godsblade]

Originally posted by Daniel:

Yareli is a F tier for new players and can be an S if played by a veteran.

Xaku is a S tier for new players and veterans.

i feel like reverse is true lol
xaku is energy hungry, can require a lot of energy to even get going in a mission, 3rd ability is 3 abilities and just running everything together can be confusing for newer players

yareli on other hand just has a weird gimmick that can be ignored with loyal merulina but she is a lot more comfy than xaku. pretty sure she also has more survivability than xaku for someone who doesn't have a shield gating setup considering merulina has 90% DR and invulnerability while getting on/off. plus when health tanking, you dont even need full rank adaptation to get the full 90% DR

but it is true new players need tierlists more conisdering they won't have that much forma/endo/potatoes, its just annoying that overframe doesn't have separate tierlist for steel path/base starchart (incarnons are annoying in base starchart..) or even just some tags for nuance/what roles a warframe/weapon is supposed to play.
also warframe being outdated with many things like warframes (yareli/zephyr) and even some weapons (ignis wraith/kuva bramma/zarr) doesn't help at all

i think all warframes are viable at least if you actually enjoy playing the game so you don't need a tier list, just need to make sure you properly understand their mechanics lol and get the proper mods to compensate in what they're lacking

[Tenz]

If your having problems with energy you should not play with efficiency below 100%. Even as a long time vet I almost never play with efficiency below 100% because of the energy costs!

[Ghazgh]

Never seen a game where so much "contend creater" produce s.... tier lists, calling frames like banshee and koumei "trash". But hey, shooting someone in the foot for 10 min to produce 6 cap nukes is noice....

[Nova Solarius]

Originally posted by MekaDovah:

Originally posted by tv:

the community is brainwashing every new player into playing rhino/ volt/ revanant, wukong and ignis wraith, zenurik. the same ♥♥♥♥ over and over. I didn't even bother watching Kengineer's new series.

Name one gaming community that isn't obsessed with tier lists and min-maxing. Every community I've seen has had this issue. Even non-gaming ones.

Deep Rock Galactic. They still engage in it, but far less than most, and there's very little pressure to min-max until you get to modded difficulties.

[EvilZombie]

there are bad frame ... atlas you can ONLY build him one punch other ability is trash his 2 is trash 3 is insufferable 4 bad AI

there's alot need to be updated

[Wandering Flare]

Originally posted by tv:

the community is brainwashing every new player into playing rhino/ volt/ revanant, wukong and ignis wraith, zenurik. the same ♥♥♥♥ over and over. I didn't even bother watching Kengineer's new series.

To be fair, Rhino is just good advice. Easy to get, easy to use, helps learn the game without worry about going down because a random Toxin proc happened on you, and perfectly viable in the endgame if the person comes to like the gun-focused playstyle.

I know ♥♥♥♥-all about what's the best and what isn't but I'm still going to suggest new players to get Rhino because he is a great starting point with minimal input.