Rending Strike or Spoiled Strike for slash based melee weapon?

[SaltLevelsMax]

I'm wondering which of these would give me more damage since I'm not completely sure how the stats all work with each other. In case you didn't know what they did, rending strike adds 60% slash damage, and 80% puncture damage (which is useless on my weapon which is all slash damage) and spoiled strike adds 100% melee damage with -20% attack speed (which I have fury to counteract). So which one would add more damage in total, 60% slash damage or 100% melee damage, I have elemental mods equipped as well if that affects either one.

[❛❛Vénttea❜❜]

Spoiled Strike, don't bother with Rending.
If you got Jagged Edge, replace Rending / Spoiled Strike.
If you got Buzzkill, replace Jagged Edge.

[Watermelons]

Spoiled Strike. As opposed to the 60% slash damage and 80% on a somewhat negligble stat ( which puncture usually is on primarily slash based weapons), you get 100% across all damages. Math turns out.

[Suzaku]

From my understanding, physical mods are useless unless the weapon's physical damage split is 90% or higher (if yours is all slash, then it's just a straight 60% dps increase), and Spoiled Strike is often considered useless because the speed reduction ends up making the damage increase not enough to compare it to more simple mods that simply add damage.

So basically, you're likely better off just sticking another elemental on, or a faction mod, or something with channeling if you're into that.

There's always the builder to test things on: http://warframe-builder.com/

[SaltLevelsMax]

I have jagged edge too, I can't afford buzz kill so i've just been looking for a good mod to replace it, thanks for the answers guys

[Sergeant Scryed]

BOTH

[Vulbjorn]

I give another vote for another elemental. Rending Strike is not that immensly usefull on Slash based weapon and Spoiled Strike makes a weapon arguably weaker damage/time wise and is a big nonono for Status and Critical builds.

Spoiled Strike is good for slow to begin with weapons that hit hard, so they almost don't loose any speed and pump their hefty damage even more. Like Galatine, for example (but I still run it without it. Can't stand the slow swing).

[Drago]

I would just go for another elemental, but if you don't mind the slow attack speed, the Spoiled Strike will give more damage per hit than Rending Strike.

[IrationalFear]

Keep in mind, Spoiled Strike is additive on top of Pressure Point (which EVERY melee weapon has on), not multiplicative; after pressure point, your effective DPS increase is +50% of current damage, whereas Rending Strike, slash mods, or elemental mods provide the listed bonus as they are multiplicative.
Weapons on a berserker build don't really lose out from spoiled strike's attack speed reduction, though, as it is also additive; you can outright ignore that penalty if running Volt or Valkyr.
Faction mods are for when no other mod gives a multiplicative 30% increase, or when you want to use status effects for damage (as it acts twice, giving net 69% increased damage).

[retroquark]

And maybe because of the way critical hits work(still works this way, I think?), adding more physical damage can pay off over adding more elemental damage (since the elemental damage is added later with a different multipler).

So maybe if you have a channeling build on a weapon with a high crit multipler, and can afford the energy to use it often - you can end up with a build that doesn't have incredible damage stats, but has for example a decent flat channeling multipler, that then get critical hits based on that. And then spoiled strike would make a lot of sense, if you have more physical damage mods in the build.

[IrationalFear]

retroquark eredeti hozzászólása:

And maybe because of the way critical hits work(still works this way, I think?), adding more physical damage can pay off over adding more elemental damage (since the elemental damage is added later with a different multipler).

So maybe if you have a channeling build on a weapon with a high crit multipler, and can afford the energy to use it often - you can end up with a build that doesn't have incredible damage stats, but has for example a decent flat channeling multipler, that then get critical hits based on that. And then spoiled strike would make a lot of sense, if you have more physical damage mods in the build.

Why would critical hits only take into account physical damage when we have pure elemental weapons that don't have zero crit chance?

[retroquark]

I'm not completely sure, but I think there's a maximum multipler involved for elemental damage. So you have these critical hits doing sort of random damage, right? Except it's not random, it's based on a body-part multipler, and a base damage calculation that then varies slightly based on armor modifiers and things of that sort.

And what happens is that you can basically double a weapon's damage with elemental mods - and yet, the critical hits won't be twice as high. While if you add channeling damage and physical mods (and this stacks with melee multiplers), you can get crits massively higher than with just the elemental mods.

So I think that with both melee and ranged weapons, the elemental damage will crit for a lower multipler than the physical damage. Which.. would make sense - you double and triple the weapon's lower damage output (or nominal dps), and trade that for maximum damage. Otherwise, elemental mods would be comically awesome - you could imagine builds for these tiny little weapons that do practically no physical damage, that would easily critically hit damage that would one-shot 100-level mobs 50% of the time... If you calculated the crit multipler in the normal way.

And what happens is that with some of the high crit multipler weapons, this effect is increased. Koga-ke, for example, or the super-nikana. You would normally want to have some elemental damage, because you could be unlucky enough and not get any damage in for a while. If some mob has resistance to slash or impact and you got no crit hits, and you'd do basically no damage. So you add some elemental damage and get rid of that effect until.. level 40 enemies. But without physical damage mods, the damage output on these are pretty low. Like people say, "melee isn't viable for high level", etc. Because even if you max out something on the stat-screen, you don't really have enough damage for most weapons. And you see a lot of viral and corrosive proc (or radiation) melee in high level missions because of that. Along with corrosive projection and armor reduction to 0% trickery. Because you need a million hits to kill something otherwise.

If you look at the Amprex, you sort of have the same effect - without getting constant red crits (which have higher multiplers than what is on the stat-screen), the damage is minimal. You read out crits in between 5-20 damage when the base damage is 8 (electric) and the multipler is 5.6. But once you increase the crit chance over 100%, you get the red crits and a different multipler range, and you get actual damage. But if you scale the base damage, it's nowhere near what a red critical hit will be with, say, a Dread or something like that.

Meaning that there's something going on with the physical damage vs. elemental damage. And I think that maybe physical mods stack towards base damage when you calculate critical hits. Multishot doesn't, because they're just two shots. And the flat melee bonus also might not factor in in the same way (like spoiled strike and point strike). While maybe channeling damage does.

Point is, I'm pretty sure the output of the mods based on the base physical damage can be pretty high, even if the stats don't look like it.