Warframe is too AOE dependent.

[BirdFeeder]

Hello! I wanted to talk about several abilities and warframes, and how the need to be fixed ALOT.
There are lots of single target abilities that just wont work in a game with enemies that comes in hordes. Because enemies comes in big groups, single target abilities are useless, and never wanted in player groups.
Lets take some examples
1. Limbo ability 1(yeah it can be used on allies, but just why)
2. Ember firebolt
3. Frost freeze beam.
4. Ash teleport.....ahhahahhahahaha

These are a few examples. When there are 50 incoming gineer, with like 10 eximus. An ability that kills of 1 enemy at a time is just not working wonders.

Have you ever seen in recruitment chat that someone actually wants you to bring rhino or ash?
(Dont say "yes actually very often" because you dont)
People want AOE UTILITY. Like
1. Trinity energy vampire
2. Frost bubble
3. Limbo Ultimate
4. Mesa ultimate
5. Saryn ultimate
6.Vauban bastille and ultimate
7. Ember ultimate and other AOE abilities.
8. Nova speed or slow ultimate

Why ultimates? They are often AOE.
WHY AOE? Because this is a horde game. Enemies come in hoardes(hordes or however u spell it)
AOE abilities excel better and theres no arguing there.
Utility is also good because it synergizes with other warframes, which allows for combos and so on.



Most of the first abilities i said would not be so useles if the game had more campain, instead of waves of hordes and farming, cuz then AOE is the only usefull thing.



Also please drive a truck over wukong and meybe limbos other abilities exept his ultimate.
Wukong so far seems like a big NO.

[Ivara Ara]

Why do you think the game is AoE focused hm? Have you seen the hordes of enemies the game throws at you? How would you feel like having abilities have NO AoE whatsoever when you have hundreads of enemies around you?

[BirdFeeder]

Escrito originalmente por Ruben T:

Why do you think the game is AoE focused hm? Have you seen the hordes of enemies the game throws at you? How would you feel like having abilities have NO AoE whatsoever when you have hundreads of enemies around you?

So many questions. Man are you for or against this post?
Its either make game non-AOE dependent. Or give warframes more AOE utility.

[dyra55]

Limbo is very efficient in killing and isolating single targets with x3 damage in his own dimension and as Limbo main i don't see nothing wrong with his first ability

But Limbo could use some buffs, yeah

Ember's fireball also has small AoE DoT with fire and also 50% of fire proc

Frost's freeze also has small AoE and very efficient in disabling heavy targets
Also it has synergy with his Snowglobes, you can use Freeze to make Snowglobe explode

Ash's teleport opens enemies to finishers, finisher damage ignores armor and other damage mitigations completely which also very efficient against heavy targets

[Ellert]

I believe his point is exactly that. He wants lvls and nodes where a single target ability actually has a use and while I'm not against it it seems to me that would require a major revamp of enemys alltogether or at the very least the spawn controll. So if that ever comes it will be way in the future.

[BirdFeeder]

Escrito originalmente por dyrak55:

Limbo is very efficient in killing and isolating single targets with x3 damage in his own dimension and as Limbo main i don't see nothing wrong with his first ability

But Limbo could use some buffs, yeah

Ember's fireball also has small AoE DoT with fire and also 50% of fire proc

Frost's freeze also has small AoE and very efficient in disabling heavy targets
Also it has synergy with his Snowglobes, you can use Freeze to make Snowglobe explode

Ash's teleport opens enemies to finishers, finisher damage ignores armor and other damage mitigations completely which also very efficient against heavy targets

Well dyrak, here is the deal. You have to use your 2 to come in rift urself. Then u use 1 to get them in there too, then 3 to get bonus damage. It becomes quite annoying to do this just to kill 1-6 enemies. Sure u can isolate single targets but a good weapon easily takes care of that.
Weapons already fill the role for single target abilities. Thats the problem

[Vulbjorn]

I actually wouldn't mind Warframe becoming more like Mass Effect (as I said numerous times in the past), where even single enemy poses an actual threat because of AI, abilities, weapons and tactics they use. Quality over quantity in terms of spawning mechanic, that should allow single target abilities to become hellova more useful.

[Forblaze]

Another problem, which relates to this, is the runaway dps some weapons are able to achieve with certain combinations of abilities. There needs to be a median between level 200 enemys that are impossible to kill and trash mobs being insta-killed. Hopefully damage 3.0 addresses this, but if heavy enemys were more relevant than I think single target abilities would be more useful.

We also need more enemies like the bailiff and bursas that require immediate attention but aren't quite minibosses.

[BirdFeeder]

Escrito originalmente por Vulbjorn, the walrus rider.:

I actually wouldn't mind Warframe becoming more like Mass Effect (as I said numerous times in the past), where even single enemy poses an actual threat because of AI, abilities, weapons and tactics they use. Quality over quantity in terms of spawning mechanic, that should allow single target abilities to become hellova more useful.

Thank you man. You told it in a much better way

[Gralzeim]

Hm, what if they added in a mission type, and some new enemies (basically minibosses), and do a sort of Boss Rush mode thing? Then there's single targets for like, some or all of the mission. And if they're strong enough, that would make it so that a full cell wouldn't just obliterate them in a second.


But yeah, agreed Forblaze, that is an issue as well. The highest-damage weapons combined with all the damage amplification possible can do absurd amounts of damage, so either that has to be dialed down (or single enemies are pointless) or the single enemies are so strong that anyone with 'only' good non-best equipment/frames would be really frustrated.

The power creep is a real problem, in my opinion.

[❛❛Vénttea❜❜]

Escrito originalmente por WrongNoodle:

Well dyrak, here is the deal. You have to use your 2 to come in rift urself. Then u use 1 to get them in there too, then 3 to get bonus damage. It becomes quite annoying to do this just to kill 1-6 enemies. Sure u can isolate single targets but a good weapon easily takes care of that.
Weapons already fill the role for single target abilities. Thats the problem

Except, Limbo's way of taking out a single target is less risky than anything else. Yes, a good weapen could help, but there's so much a weapon could do once it meets a bullet sponge.

Using a rift to take out one target which could be a threat to a team is actually a better and overtime it gets less annoying since you're contributing in a different way.

[Vulbjorn]

Escrito originalmente por Forblaze:

Another problem, which relates to this, is the runaway dps some weapons are able to achieve. There needs to be a median between level 200 enemys that are impossible to kill and trash mobs being insta-killed. Hopefully damage 3.0 addresses this, but if heavy enemys were more relevant than I think single target abilities would be more useful.

We also need more enemies like the bailiff and bursas that require immediate attention but aren't quite minibosses.

And we are kinda getting there with recent Scrambuses, new Corpus proxies and latest Grineer reinforcements. I guess the thing with with Warframe and AoE is that enemies currently lack actual variety in terms of combating approach. By pressing Saryn's 4 you can kill virtually entire wave of mobs running towards you, with maybe one Baliff and a couple of Manics somehow surviving (often to their surprise).

To be honest, I'm kinda against very powerful AoE in general. If AoE - it should either have utility effect (like slowing everyone down or removing armour) or deal very little DoT damage. If single target ability - it should just outright nuke.

[Watermelons]

They actually have been adding small AoE effects. As stated above, Ember and Frost's first actually do have area of effects. There are actually plenty of "single target" abilities that spread to others. If not, they probably have excellent utility anyways.
- Ash's Shurikens hit two people, and cause massive bleeding damage. That ontop of the Augment which reduces their armor by 70% makes for a great way to soften up a big target. His Teleport is meant to open a window up on heavy enemies to do massive damage with a Finisher. If you think Teleport is bad, you're bad.
- Equinox's Rest/Rage have small AoEs from the enemy it's casted on, and so has a small spread.
- Excalibur's Slash Dash, while good to take out single targets, chains between enemies.
- Ember's Fireball has a Fire AoE that has a chance to proc fire for a damage over time.
- Frost's Freeze can spread to multiple enemies grouped up. Also leaves a small patch that causes Chill, or the ice-y slowdown on an enemy, similar to the Coolant Leak mod for sentinels.
- Limbo's Banish is meant to tactically cut enemies away from their friends by singling them out. The knockdown it procs allows Limbo to separate this enemy, then finish him quickly. Doesn't need change, I think. He's too weak to be able to Banish entire groups, and expect to safely kill them all. Too unreliable.
- Loki's Switch Teleport is for maneuverability. Or switching places with downed teammates. That, plus it's augment, are probably here to stay. Plus wouldn't make sense to switch with multple people. Maybe have a stagger on your switched locations, and leave the target open to a finisher.
- Mag's Bullet Attractor creates an explosion for a large amount of damage if the target is killed before it ends.
- Nekros' Soul Punch creates a large ragdoll effect behind the target.
- Mind Control is for singular targets to bring to your side. Want multiple friendly AI? Specters. Want multiple enemies effected somehow? Chaos. Or Pyschic Bolts for a smaller group of mindless enemies.
- Oberon's Smite leaves a Radiation Proc on the target if he lives, making him get up and attack blindly. It also shoots out Puncture proccing particles that seek out more enemies.
- Saryn's Venom can spread when the spores are shot in vicinity of other enemies.
- Trinity's Well of Life and Energy Vampire are obvious.
- Valkyr's Ripline is to pull a single big target to you for a finisher. Or for movement. Also wouldn't really make sense to have multiple targets, outside of having an autoaim and it autotargetting available enemies in front of you. But then, when would the game know not to do that? Besides, it's already got a soft lock on now.
- Volt's Shock can zap multiple enemies.

Sure, Warframe might be AoE dependant, but I don't see too much of a problem with it. Their way of fixing it is adding Line of Sight requirements for enemies to be affected, and I'm ok with that. I honestly hate some of the AoE powers we have, like Equinox's Maim. Seriously makes the game a bore if you've got some ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ running max range in a defense or running in super low level missions. Just a buzzkill.

[dyra55]

Escrito originalmente por WrongNoodle:

Well dyrak, here is the deal. You have to use your 2 to come in rift urself. Then u use 1 to get them in there too, then 3 to get bonus damage. It becomes quite annoying to do this just to kill 1-6 enemies. Sure u can isolate single targets but a good weapon easily takes care of that.
Weapons already fill the role for single target abilities. Thats the problem

...you saying it like i don't know how to play Limbo, lol

Yes and what? it's Limbo, you will never use his abilities unless it's necessary

It's not your usual "SPAM 4 FOR WIN" frame you like though, it's tactitian frame like Loki and Vauban

[dyra55]

Escrito originalmente por Vulbjorn, the walrus rider.:

I actually wouldn't mind Warframe becoming more like Mass Effect (as I said numerous times in the past), where even single enemy poses an actual threat because of AI, abilities, weapons and tactics they use. Quality over quantity in terms of spawning mechanic, that should allow single target abilities to become hellova more useful.

DE promised release Sentients as End-game factions, i hope they will be dangerous enough to deal with them with your full arsenal

[❛❛Vénttea❜❜]

Escrito originalmente por dyrak55:

DE promised release Sentients as End-game factions, i hope they will be dangerous enough to deal with them with your full arsenal

...and then the anti-sentient frame has been released, which could be far overpowered than the rest with handicaps.