Deep Archimedean - disappointed

[VeraelHasta]

Ok, I deleted the previous thread because I didn't express well enough what I meant.

I find the design of the Deep Archimedean very unfun. I recently came back to the game, last time I was clearing Deep Vaults (or whatever they are called) relatively easly with Voruna. But I often went with public play for an easier time.
I tried Archimedean today and man, I found it really unfun. I don't have any of the current warframes/weapons built properly. So I tried to play it solo at first, just to check it out. The restrictions with the energy leeching drones and a lot of constantly shooting necramechs was hard enough for me, I couldn't really keep up. So I tried public, couldn't really find anyone. And right there I felt like DE was pushing me into looking for meta builds, to be able to get nice rewards from this mode. Honestly, it is the first time I felt like this.

I think the restrictive design DE employs for some time now has the opposite effect to what they want. Yeah, sure, hardcore players playing the game constantly have no problems with this. But more casual players like me are pushed into looking for meta builds, instead of having fun.

I built Voruna myself (I play a few more frames, I'm just using her as an example) to clear some stuff. Usually when I have problems with a given mode, I look for a Warframe that I like that would be better for it. Learn it, forma it over a week or two. And the outcome is me getting this mission done easier/faster/better.

With Duviri, if I didn't like any of the warframes, I could just wait for it to switch. If I found at least one warframe or one weapon I liked, I played it - even if it was not optimal setup.

But with this? The restrictions are just too much. I feel like I would need to either dedicate a lot of time each week to forma/learn given warframes and weapons.
Or look at a build someone else made, pushing me further into playing what is meta, not what I have fun with.

Obviously a strong weapon is more fun than a weak one, but the feeling is different if you are railroaded into choosing it, instead of choosing it yourself.

I wish DE stopped with this forcing us to play different things. They do it more and more with each year. First it was sortie/arbitration bonuses, then Helmith powerups, then Archon bonuses, then restricted choices in duviri. Now a weekly mode you need to play a certain warframe/weapon to get better rewards - or play a meta weapon/warframe, so you can gimp yourself in other areas.

Honestly, I'm just disappointed. After praising the Jade quest, how you obtain jade etc.

[Blarker]

I mean, its high level end game content. If you only have like 1-2 built frames / weapons then you aren't there yet. And the pubs for DA are probably barren since everyone wants to do EDA, the even harder mode with better rewards, more.

It's fine if you aren't at the point of the game where you have a lot of stuff built and able to be used, but things like EDA and circuit are trying to incentivise you to broaden your toolbox. And if a certain loadout for you in a given week is bad...you don't have to do it. Archon shards are mostly there for fleshing out end game builds anyways.

[peon]

Still havent done one, and never will.

And I own every frame and weapon except the last few updates worth.

[Firefrye]

Originally posted by VeraelHasta:

...And right there I felt like DE was pushing me into looking for meta builds, to be able to get nice rewards from this mode. Honestly, it is the first time I felt like this.

I think the restrictive design DE employs for some time now has the opposite effect to what they want. Yeah, sure, hardcore players playing the game constantly have no problems with this. But more casual players like me are pushed into looking for meta builds, instead of having fun.

[Randomized gear] OR [Pushed to use meta]
Choose one of those to complain about, but not both because they're directly contradictory. Either you have limited options on what to use and it's pure luck if you happen to get a "good" or "meta" weapon/frame OR you feel pushed to use a meta loadout. In the first case you can complain that you didn't get lucky with your selection, while in the second you can complain that DE is making something so hard you feel forced to use just meta builds.
With Deep Archimedia we get lucky some weeks and unlucky others. I personally like the fact that some weeks are a real challenge or force me to learn frames/weapons I don't normally use and I tend to spend a couple forma per week on setting up my loadout for that week.

Originally posted by VeraelHasta:

... Usually when I have problems with a given mode, I look for a Warframe that I like that would be better for it. Learn it, forma it over a week or two. And the outcome is me getting this mission done easier/faster/better.

With Duviri, if I didn't like any of the warframes, I could just wait for it to switch. If I found at least one warframe or one weapon I liked, I played it - even if it was not optimal setup.

But with this? The restrictions are just too much. I feel like I would need to either dedicate a lot of time each week to forma/learn given warframes and weapons.
Or look at a build someone else made, pushing me further into playing what is meta, not what I have fun with.

You're kind of missing the point here. This is SUPPOSED to require the time to learn and forma new or less used gear and in return the missions have some of the highest rewards possible in the current game. And just like in Duviri, if you don't like the restrictions you CAN "just wait for it to switch" but this comes at a higher cost of having to wait a full week and missing that week's reward rotation. But again, this is some of the highest rewards possible and it's not supposed to be a "given" that you can earn them every week unless you dedicate the time and effort.
Nothing is forcing you to rely on meta builds. The game is trying to push you to demonstrate your understanding of modding and building to make a randomized selection of gear function in a highly challenging environment.

Originally posted by VeraelHasta:

... Obviously a strong weapon is more fun than a weak one, but the feeling is different if you are railroaded into choosing it, instead of choosing it yourself.

This is personal preference. I feel rewarded when I get a "good roll" one week (like this week where I rolled Saryn and had the flex slot to bring my acid shell Sobek because I could handle all the debuffs). And that's another point. If you're willing to pass up on the last reward of Vosphor (a very low quantity of it too), you get one flex slot to bring your favorite weapon, frame, or to turn off a singular terrible debuff you don't think you can handle.

Originally posted by VeraelHasta:

... I wish DE stopped with this forcing us to play different things. They do it more and more with each year. First it was sortie/arbitration bonuses, then Helmith powerups, then Archon bonuses, then restricted choices in duviri. Now a weekly mode you need to play a certain warframe/weapon to get better rewards - or play a meta weapon/warframe, so you can gimp yourself in other areas.

Meanwhile I look at the rng system as the only plausible way DE has to combat the meta. No you are NOT allowed to bring your exact frame/dps weapon/primer weapon/stat stick combo that can solo carry levelcap... but if you get super lucky you might be able to bring it once and laugh your way to victory. DE has designed a very deep modding system (including augments and helminth) and it is capable of bringing even trash tier weapons up to a level at which they can clear most content in the game. OR can be built in a way to support OTHER PLAYERS so that THEY can clear the missions/objectives your "bad luck" can't clear on your own. If you get really unlucky on your rolls, build and mod your frame for a support roll and mod the weapons as primers for other players. Toss a few green shards at the frame + pick the highest status weapon and suddenly you're full armor stripping anything you want. Or you mod for all the "off meta" status effects to buff your allies CO and Gun-CO mods.

[VeraelHasta]

Originally posted by Firefrye:

[Randomized gear] OR [Pushed to use meta]
Choose one of those to complain about, but not both because they're directly contradictory. Either you have limited options on what to use and it's pure luck if you happen to get a "good" or "meta" weapon/frame OR you feel pushed to use a meta loadout. In the first case you can complain that you didn't get lucky with your selection, while in the second you can complain that DE is making something so hard you feel forced to use just meta builds.
With Deep Archimedia we get lucky some weeks and unlucky others. I personally like the fact that some weeks are a real challenge or force me to learn frames/weapons I don't normally use and I tend to spend a couple forma per week on setting up my loadout for that week.

You misunderstood me. I feel pushed to use meta builds, because with a meta warframe/weapon, you can bypass the other restrictions easier. Or you look up which weapon of the 9 is the most meta, to max it fast and use it, even when you don't really want/like it. This is what I mean by pushing me into looking for meta stuff. It is not contradictory.

Originally posted by Firefrye:

Meanwhile I look at the rng system as the only plausible way DE has to combat the meta. No you are NOT allowed to bring your exact frame/dps weapon/primer weapon/stat stick combo that can solo carry levelcap... but if you get super lucky you might be able to bring it once and laugh your way to victory. DE has designed a very deep modding system (including augments and helminth) and it is capable of bringing even trash tier weapons up to a level at which they can clear most content in the game. OR can be built in a way to support OTHER PLAYERS so that THEY can clear the missions/objectives your "bad luck" can't clear on your own. If you get really unlucky on your rolls, build and mod your frame for a support roll and mod the weapons as primers for other players. Toss a few green shards at the frame + pick the highest status weapon and suddenly you're full armor stripping anything you want. Or you mod for all the "off meta" status effects to buff your allies CO and Gun-CO mods.

Why do you have to combat the meta though?
Why do you have to force players into playing a character they don't really like?
What if people are not playing the normal version anymore, so you are forced to be solo?

I don't mind difficulty, I struggled with Archons for a while (mostly because I have no clue how damage attentuation works), but I upgraded and tried a few weapons on the to see what works. I put a lot into Voruna because I tried her and she was fun to play, not because I was made to by an arbitrary restricion.

I will most likely ignore this gamemode, yes. It doesn't make me feel less disappointed though. It really made me kinda not want to play as much as I wanted after the Jade quest. Yes it is how I feel personally, but it is the result of this design.

[Sceles]

So basically TL;DR
You dislike that there is content for players who want challenge. You have an option to never touch said content if you don't enjoy it, but that is not enough for you because the simple existence of said content annoys you. So you want it removed because the game should cater to what you enjoy only.

Now that's some Warframe mentality alright.

[lil rat]

At first I h8'd it, but after unlocking Deep Archimedia its smooth sailing. Initially I thought if you failed the mission you'd have to spend another 2 Netracell slots just to do it again, turns out you don't and you can do it as much as you'd like. And if you don't get whatever's "meta" you can always rely on randoms who DID have good luck.

[VeraelHasta]

Originally posted by Sceles:

So basically TL;DR
You dislike that there is content for players who want challenge. You have an option to never touch said content if you don't enjoy it, but that is not enough for you because the simple existence of said content annoys you. So you want it removed because the game should cater to what you enjoy only.

Now that's some Warframe mentality alright.

I expressed my dislike in the direction the "difficulty" is going in, which makes the game less and less fun by making it more restrictive in what you can use.
I never said anything about removing it.
Why do you even read an opinion piece, if you are not interested in what it says?

[Nibbie]

Originally posted by VeraelHasta:

I expressed my dislike in the direction the "difficulty" is going in, which makes the game less and less fun by making it more restrictive in what you can use.
I never said anything about removing it.

So you think its "unfun", "restrictive", and disappointing, but you actually still want it to remain in the game?

[VeraelHasta]

Originally posted by Nibbie:

Originally posted by VeraelHasta:

I expressed my dislike in the direction the "difficulty" is going in, which makes the game less and less fun by making it more restrictive in what you can use.
I never said anything about removing it.

So you think its "unfun", "restrictive", and disappointing, but you actually still want it to remain in the game?

It is their game. I might dislike it, but the most I will do is just not play the game mode and play less Warframe due to being disappointed.
As I did with Eidolons - but with them I didn't have anything against the design per se, the fights were just too chaotic and too flashy for my liking.

[TheWorldconsumer]

Well, the pool of the DA and EDA is the same like the netracells, but the chances for Tau-forged shards is higher. So if you do not like your setup for this week, just go there instead.
After all, you can now craft tau-forged yourself.

[KIREEK]

Tip to complete multiple weekly elite deep archimedea with most rewards:

Select a warframe with an exalted weapon, then activate all conditions except for the warframe, proceed to use the exalted weapon during the entire mission, Dante recomended.

[Spartykins]

my only complaint with them are the friggin immortal shadows that drain hp and energy

it's like mosquitos

[Firefrye]

Originally posted by Spartykins ❤:

my only complaint with them are the friggin immortal shadows that drain hp and energy

it's like mosquitos

Last week when we rolled no operator I decided to try my luck without my operator arcane for healing and void dashing to deal with those, and I learned some things.
1. Their aura doesn't seem to have infinite height
2. They can't climb or jump
3. Their pathfinding gets really messed up if you keep jumping back and forth over a gap, pit, or ledge with no ramp

This meant I spent a large portion of the mission standing on posts, railings, light fixtures, or the odd ledges around the walls. As long as I was above them (or forcing them to keep backtracking around a long path to get to me again), they were harmless. Still died a few times when I had to get through a choke point or try to help someone else, but I at least felt I had some "tricks" to deal with them.

[C486]

The problem I had with EDA was it became another forgettable farm after the arcanes were acquired.

Randomized loadouts might be the only thing to counter the pervasive power creep present in WF.

Because DR ain't it.

[Illusive Soul]

Originally posted by VeraelHasta:

Ok, I deleted the previous thread because I didn't express well enough what I meant.

I find the design of the Deep Archimedean very unfun. I recently came back to the game, last time I was clearing Deep Vaults (or whatever they are called) relatively easly with Voruna. But I often went with public play for an easier time.
I tried Archimedean today and man, I found it really unfun. I don't have any of the current warframes/weapons built properly. So I tried to play it solo at first, just to check it out. The restrictions with the energy leeching drones and a lot of constantly shooting necramechs was hard enough for me, I couldn't really keep up. So I tried public, couldn't really find anyone. And right there I felt like DE was pushing me into looking for meta builds, to be able to get nice rewards from this mode. Honestly, it is the first time I felt like this.

I think the restrictive design DE employs for some time now has the opposite effect to what they want. Yeah, sure, hardcore players playing the game constantly have no problems with this. But more casual players like me are pushed into looking for meta builds, instead of having fun.

A challenge content require you to use good weapon and builds, SHOCKING, tell you what, i use Junk weapon too, i had ship crew to help me blow things up, you want a good reward ? , Bite your teeth and accept the challenge, i am surprise you had issue on DA because you are veteran that over 3k hours in this game, or maybe get 1 single friends , take turn use full good gear and breeze through EDA.

Originally posted by VeraelHasta:

But with this? The restrictions are just too much. I feel like I would need to either dedicate a lot of time each week to forma/learn given warframes and weapons.
Or look at a build someone else made, pushing me further into playing what is meta, not what I have fun with.

Obviously a strong weapon is more fun than a weak one, but the feeling is different if you are railroaded into choosing it, instead of choosing it yourself.

take me few minutes to get use to the game mode, just stay alive and be useful, it is not that hard, i use junk weapon time to time in EDA, i just try what i can to help my team.

Originally posted by VeraelHasta:

I wish DE stopped with this forcing us to play different things. They do it more and more with each year. First it was sortie/arbitration bonuses, then Helmith powerups, then Archon bonuses, then restricted choices in duviri. Now a weekly mode you need to play a certain warframe/weapon to get better rewards - or play a meta weapon/warframe, so you can gimp yourself in other areas.

no one force you to do those game mode, DE dont point gun at your head, you can ignore it, you want certain good reward ? then play it , game giving more thing for player to play weekly,it is a good thing, if you think it is a chore, then dont do it, play something els.

game is not even hard, Get Gud i guess ? DE might be soon putting enemy that above 400 - 500 level, go on complain these difficulty require you to use decent build and stay mad.