1999 and Proto Nyx and her rework CANNOT come fast enough!

[domgthe222]

what are you guys excited for, for the 1999 update?

[rhoenix]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από XianE:

Honestly it does seem like they're setting it up for long-term, but I'd wager part of it would be based on reception. Of the social, playtime, and interest vein as unlike other games there is no financial metric to it (except I guess the Gemini skins).

I'd guess they'd base it on how much players engage with it. If at least the same amount of players that enjoy the Sanctum Anatomica missions also enjoy 1999, the player count would encourage them to build on it.

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από XianE:

I do think the notion "content island" needs to be dropped, because that's like going into Dragon Quest 11 and calling each zone there a "content island" vs. a zone within the game as part of the overall narrative.

In the past, DE has introduced systems only barely connected with others, and many players (including myself) have often wished for them to feel less separated from other systems - Railjack, for instance. This has led to the "content island" term coming to the fore.

As an example of them working to resolve this, the Incarnon adapters and other items received from the Circuit helped this with Duviri, along with the Arcanes.

So, I have hope that they can resolve that, or at least mitigate it, as they've shown that they can do so in the past.

I still wish they'd take another look at Railjack's integration into the main game, though.

[XianE]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από rhoenix:

I'd guess they'd base it on how much players engage with it. If at least the same amount of players that enjoy the Sanctum Anatomica missions also enjoy 1999, the player count would encourage them to build on it.

I definitely hope they do cause it looks like it has so many directions it could go story-wise, but also they've hinted at more Gemini skins too that I'd love to see.

In the past, DE has introduced systems only barely connected with others, and many players (including myself) have often wished for them to feel less separated from other systems - Railjack, for instance. This has led to the "content island" term coming to the fore.

As an example of them working to resolve this, the Incarnon adapters and other items received from the Circuit helped this with Duviri, along with the Arcanes.

So, I have hope that they can resolve that, or at least mitigate it, as they've shown that they can do so in the past.

I still wish they'd take another look at Railjack's integration into the main game, though.

I've seen people that have complained about the separation and "islanding" of stuff and I've seen those that love the self-contained aspect. I can see benefits with both camps and also have no issue about "islands", especially if they make sense to be that way. Duviri for instance makes sense to be off on its own thing cause its an entire other world in the Void or close enough. I have however been rooting for more RJ integration, in particular my view of an Invasion 2.0 that incorporates it as the lead-in to the ground part of invasion missions (which with the infested coming into RJ with 1999 seems like the pieces are in place to do). I know some probably want what was initially shown with RJ with it showing up to pick the Tenno up from open areas, but that's always been more meh to me. I also get why DE would "island" things from the angle of longtime players having a ton of resources they could drop on new content to burn through it in like a day vs. having new resources they couldn't have farmed before. Its just one of those things where I'm very much in the middle.

[Drago]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από XianE:

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Drago:

I wouldn't say maturation; since its different writers, but its a different direction. It will remain to be seen how Adrian C Botts handles the topics of alternate modern pasts; young adults; and space time drifter romance relationships.

I meant maturation of the Tenno.

From Operators who are freshly reawakened but having been dreaming that have a child state to them (Second Dream) -> being taught and honed via Teshin as as regaining their memories onboard the Zariman (War Within) -> learning to see into, calm, and synchronize with frames (Sacrifice) -> coming to terms with the place of their traumatic experience and even the crew of it (Angels of the Zariman) -> Drifter being presented as an adult and fighting with their own skills & weapons with a tone shift towards them in-line with an adult (New War) -> Drifter having basically grown up alone on the Zariman derelict that at some point led to ending up in Duviri going through who knows how many cycles/years leading to their speaking & acting in an adult manner (Duviri) -> Operator using the synchronizing & calming to help Jade (Jade Shadows) -> and now Drifter likely further learning to fight in their true body while also forming romantic bonds with others that are in some way altered

The "Tenno" isn't being involved. The Drifter I believe was said to be headlining instead. The Drifter is potentially going to get some friends their own relative to space time age. Which is nice, but it doesn't grow the Tenno any. Their hero journey still needs more story beats. The rest while neat is just theory for now and remains to be seen if DE picks up on the same angles you are. To that end, I hope they do.

[rhoenix]

There's one storyline possibility that's been running through my head since I saw the preview for 1999.

It probably isn't even close to true. I'll start with that disclaimer.

BUT:

What if Entrati going to that specific parallel Earth and doing his deeds there kicks off an entire uncomfortably parallel storyline of how we as Tenno got our Warframes?

It depends on the group Hex's motivations of course, but if they're trying to stop Entrati and reduce the damage he's doing to a world already threatened by the Infested, then drafting people into their group that directly echo the frames we have would work quite well.

The first one I thought of, of course, was the redheaded Major, Neci Rusalka. I'm sure many of us looked at her and thought, "Oh it's Saryn!" but if this was the case, what would have to happen? She'd have to be injected by the same reagents by Entrati that the Hex were, and be likely left for dead at the hands of her own faction as a result. This would enable the Hex to patch her up, help her understand what happened to her, and direct her anger toward Entrati.

This further gives the opportunity to have a personalized storyline for every single frame as they release its Gemini skin, each person having a storyline to go through as a result.

Now, I'll close with saying that this is entirely and completely wishful thinking on my part, as I've wanted something like this pretty much since I finished the Sacrifice quest. There is no evidence at all to suggest this is what DE might do with the 1999 update.

But... it's fun to think about.

[XianE]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Drago:

The "Tenno" isn't being involved. The Drifter I believe was said to be headlining instead. The Drifter is potentially going to get some friends their own relative to space time age. Which is nice, but it doesn't grow the Tenno any. Their hero journey still needs more story beats. The rest while neat is just theory for now and remains to be seen if DE picks up on the same angles you are. To that end, I hope they do.

If this were happening either outside of a game or irl life, then sure. But within the narrative structure of the game The Drifter is basically an extension of the Operator; which the two together = two parts of the overall Tenno aka a stand-in/representative of the player. On top of that the Operator is never going to reach adulthood to have that aspect of their maturation and Reb's rightfully disgusted response to the notion of the Operator being remotely near romance reinforces that. What it does is provide the player the view of that aspect of the collective Tenno.

As for what you're referring to as "theory" I don't know, as most of what I stated is based on things from game itself mixed with my own knowledge as a writer.

[Drago]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από XianE:

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Drago:

The "Tenno" isn't being involved. The Drifter I believe was said to be headlining instead. The Drifter is potentially going to get some friends their own relative to space time age. Which is nice, but it doesn't grow the Tenno any. Their hero journey still needs more story beats. The rest while neat is just theory for now and remains to be seen if DE picks up on the same angles you are. To that end, I hope they do.

If this were happening either outside of a game or irl life, then sure. But within the narrative structure of the game The Drifter is basically an extension of the Operator; which the two together = two parts of the overall Tenno aka a stand-in/representative of the player. On top of that the Operator is never going to reach adulthood to have that aspect of their maturation and Reb's rightfully disgusted response to the notion of the Operator being remotely near romance reinforces that. What it does is provide the player the view of that aspect of the collective Tenno.

As for what you're referring to as "theory" I don't know, as most of what I stated is based on things from game itself mixed with my own knowledge as a writer.

The -game- posits that the Drifter is an alternate self of the Tenno from a potential reality where essentially the Drifter didn't get the same results of the deal choice. They were alone on the Zariman in their reality and bled into Duviri. That would suggest they are an unrealized version of the same person that became the Tenno; but not the Tenno themselves. They never had any of the intervening life choices, karma choices, or child soldier problems. Essentially they poofed into our real space from a loop hole. Mechanically, in game they are just another version of our Tenno but narrative-wise they are essentially their own character and person.

In the Drifter's reality, they didn't get the same results of the deal. They were alone there on the Zariman in the void. Its through the weird nature of the Duviri story/fragment of imagined reality that they even got to our Tenno's version of the universe and only know about the Tenno and warframes from the dream of Teshin sharing that knowledge with them. Their story is hopefully one that will be realized; but it wouldn't continue the Tenno's story. Two separate but equal wholes; similar but unique. It is even implied that its attaching to us through the bleed and our revisiting Zariman is empowering them due to the nature of our saving all the kids from the Zariman deal.

The Tenno still has a deal with Wally; the Drifter doesn't have the same link to the entity. Would you say they still have the same debt when Wally didn't save them? It makes more sense to send the Drifter into such a situation given that they are getting benefits from the Tenno deal without being as in as much danger if Wally calls in his chips. "I saved all of them, never said I would save you" is the line I like best about this entire dynamic. If I am reading this right, even their being in Duviri could be seen as aging up within the Void and their mind escaping into their story book world as a coping mechanism with the madness that would likely be their destiny alone their on the ship.

[Spartykins]

interested to see what toys we'll end up getting

though I'm not entirely sure what DE could do with more modern weaponry, infested variations of them could be interesting perhaps

[Drago]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από BoxxyB:

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από XianE:

"Add nothing", except oh I don't know STORY which is the entire point of art. So tired of this garbage notion that the entire game has to be shifted to justify story progressing vs. just enjoying the damn art. Though your usage of "power creep" in itself already says plenty.

Wow different people enjoy different things. That's not a hard concept to grasp. me not being excited for it doesn't negate the ability of others to enjoy what I don't. Power creep is an inevitability in any game that goes on this long and no amount of mental gymnastics changes the fact that DE consistently creates a problem and adds a solution. Whether you like it or not. That is how game design works especially in live service games.

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Lizard King:

Didn't you leave a comment saying your first 1k of hours should be dedicated to trading? You can sit this one out.

Did I? because I'm pretty sure I said is the average player should dedicate a large chunk of their first 1k hours to trading. There is something called exaggeration you should familiarize yourself with though. If OP didn't want a discussion of varying opinions, OP should not have asked a question. I gave an honest answer. whether you like it or not isn't my problem

Trading can help, and helping newer players judge the trade chat and how to make solid equitable trades is a positive bit of advice. Some players do get burned out on how difficult it can sometimes be just staring at trade chat instead of running missions.

[XianE]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Drago:

The -game- posits that the Drifter is an alternate self of the Tenno from a potential reality where essentially the Drifter didn't get the same results of the deal choice. They were alone on the Zariman in their reality and bled into Duviri. That would suggest they are an unrealized version of the same person that became the Tenno; but not the Tenno themselves. They never had any of the intervening life choices, karma choices, or child soldier problems. Essentially they poofed into our real space from a loop hole. Mechanically, in game they are just another version of our Tenno but narrative-wise they are essentially their own character and person.

Once again there is the in-story and the narrative/writer's usage of the character. The Drifter is not treated as their own unique island, but as an extension of the Operator who will never age via the effect of either the Void or Indifference's deal (either can fit considering the Void doesn't fit within normal concepts of reality that'd include aging and its anyone's guess what all was included in "the deal"). By doing it in this manner we get fun little bits like Drifter's first transference experience during TNW that is both funny and also showing how the process might've been for that character back in the day or could've been. They also still had to go through everything on the Zariman and had their own experiences both there and in Duviri, while maintaining their ability to be used to show a novice Void user to provide a look onto the Operator who skipped all that via knowing seemingly by instinct how to use transference & frames by the time we the players enter into the picture. If you've played Horizon Forbidden West: This is similar to Aloy and Beta, where they are separate characters that were raised very differently thus give a fuller concept of the Aloy's character via both the differences and similarities between them.

The Drifter can go into territories that the Operator can't or by moral standards shouldn't go into. An aspect of that being romance with the Hex but likely anyone as the Operator won't age, thus it will forever be a "NOPE" for them. The Drifter on the other hand is aged and is fine to go into that territory as part of the overarching concept of the Tenno character once again is US the players that use both Operator and Drifter. When I pursue a romance with Eleanor its ME the player/Tenno doing that, the same as during TNW choosing to finish that final arc with either Operator or Drifter based on my preference/want to see the differences. The two are separate characters but are also reflective of each other in areas they can't go into.

In the Drifter's reality, they didn't get the same results of the deal. They were alone there on the Zariman in the void. Its through the weird nature of the Duviri story/fragment of imagined reality that they even got to our Tenno's version of the universe and only know about the Tenno and warframes from the dream of Teshin sharing that knowledge with them. Their story is hopefully one that will be realized; but it wouldn't continue the Tenno's story. Two separate but equal wholes; similar but unique. It is even implied that its attaching to us through the bleed and our revisiting Zariman is empowering them due to the nature of our saving all the kids from the Zariman deal.

Once again both are extension of the Tenno (players) that go into territories that either can't. Drifter wouldn't make since to be in Jade Shadows given their novice status with transference; Operator is just a big NOPE in having a romance with anyone being forever locked as an at oldest mid-teens kid. But the story can take each of those, show it to the Tenno (players), and form a full picture of the character by doing so. Which is exactly how I see the writing approach so far.

The Tenno still has a deal with Wally; the Drifter doesn't have the same link to the entity. Would you say they still have the same debt when Wally didn't save them? It makes more sense to send the Drifter into such a situation given that they are getting benefits from the Tenno deal without being as in as much danger if Wally calls in his chips. "I saved all of them, never said I would save you" is the line I like best about this entire dynamic. If I am reading this right, even their being in Duviri could be seen as aging up within the Void and their mind escaping into their story book world as a coping mechanism with the madness that would likely be their destiny alone their on the ship.

Its already confirmed that the reason Drifter is going back is due to not having the deal in place, thus not being sought after by the Indifference. A blindspot created by a paradox. But this entire thing only reinforces what I've been saying about Operator and Drifter each having specific territories that only they can enter as part of a bigger collective concept of the character presented to US the players as the true Tenno.

So once again I state how there is the narrative/writer's usage of the characters as pieces to a whole fuller concept. The Drifter is not treated as their own unique island, nor is the Operator, but instead both as an extension of the Tenno (player) to provide a full picture via each going into territories the other can't. The fact that 2 of my fav games (WF and Horizon) have similar elements via different means is just -chef's kiss-

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από BoxxyB:

Wow different people enjoy different things. That's not a hard concept to grasp. me not being excited for it doesn't negate the ability of others to enjoy what I don't. Power creep is an inevitability in any game that goes on this long and no amount of mental gymnastics changes the fact that DE consistently creates a problem and adds a solution. Whether you like it or not. That is how game design works especially in live service games.

It doesn't matter whether you enjoy it or not, its factually not "nothing"; there is something you just don't like it/enjoy it. Its essentially like someone saying how there's nothing to eat; having it pointed out they're standing in front of an entire buffet of food; and them saying "but I don't like any of that". As if it validates the claim of there being nothing to eat, when it doesn't.

The devs and game haven't made it a secret that the game is a power fantasy. The only "issue" I'd have is if the devs decided to try to take the game into Soulsborne territory to appease the one camp of annoying sweatlords, rather than maintaining an approachable territory that is fun.

[󠀡󠀡]

Content, same as usual. The game has a problem of extreme content droughts 1 hour after a new update is released and there's nothing to keep you playing as a vet unless you're one of those people who like familiarity and want to play the same thing over and over.

Fully expect to play the new update for an hour, finish the story, try out the new infested lich, get bored before I get all the parazon sequences correct and quit again till the next update

[☼Solaire Of Astora☼]

I'm really hoping for some more incentives to play as my operator/drifter, like getting new AMP parts or perhaps some new focus abilities, perhaps a few new mechanics.

Also hoping that the 'Dating sim' part is real and not bait since proto nyx is giving me massive mommy vibes.

Also-also really hoping that the reworks are good, like how hydroid went from a low D tier frame to an A+ tier frame, I'm hoping the same happens to Nyx, Loki, Caliban and so forth.

[Drago]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από XianE:

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Drago:

The -game- posits that the Drifter is an alternate self of the Tenno from a potential reality where essentially the Drifter didn't get the same results of the deal choice. They were alone on the Zariman in their reality and bled into Duviri. That would suggest they are an unrealized version of the same person that became the Tenno; but not the Tenno themselves. They never had any of the intervening life choices, karma choices, or child soldier problems. Essentially they poofed into our real space from a loop hole. Mechanically, in game they are just another version of our Tenno but narrative-wise they are essentially their own character and person.

Once again there is the in-story and the narrative/writer's usage of the character. The Drifter is not treated as their own unique island, but as an extension of the Operator who will never age via the effect of either the Void or Indifference's deal (either can fit considering the Void doesn't fit within normal concepts of reality that'd include aging and its anyone's guess what all was included in "the deal"). By doing it in this manner we get fun little bits like Drifter's first transference experience during TNW that is both funny and also showing how the process might've been for that character back in the day or could've been. They also still had to go through everything on the Zariman and had their own experiences both there and in Duviri, while maintaining their ability to be used to show a novice Void user to provide a look onto the Operator who skipped all that via knowing seemingly by instinct how to use transference & frames by the time we the players enter into the picture. If you've played Horizon Forbidden West: This is similar to Aloy and Beta, where they are separate characters that were raised very differently thus give a fuller concept of the Aloy's character via both the differences and similarities between them.

The Drifter can go into territories that the Operator can't or by moral standards shouldn't go into. An aspect of that being romance with the Hex but likely anyone as the Operator won't age, thus it will forever be a "NOPE" for them. The Drifter on the other hand is aged and is fine to go into that territory as part of the overarching concept of the Tenno character once again is US the players that use both Operator and Drifter. When I pursue a romance with Eleanor its ME the player/Tenno doing that, the same as during TNW choosing to finish that final arc with either Operator or Drifter based on my preference/want to see the differences. The two are separate characters but are also reflective of each other in areas they can't go into.

In the Drifter's reality, they didn't get the same results of the deal. They were alone there on the Zariman in the void. Its through the weird nature of the Duviri story/fragment of imagined reality that they even got to our Tenno's version of the universe and only know about the Tenno and warframes from the dream of Teshin sharing that knowledge with them. Their story is hopefully one that will be realized; but it wouldn't continue the Tenno's story. Two separate but equal wholes; similar but unique. It is even implied that its attaching to us through the bleed and our revisiting Zariman is empowering them due to the nature of our saving all the kids from the Zariman deal.

Once again both are extension of the Tenno (players) that go into territories that either can't. Drifter wouldn't make since to be in Jade Shadows given their novice status with transference; Operator is just a big NOPE in having a romance with anyone being forever locked as an at oldest mid-teens kid. But the story can take each of those, show it to the Tenno (players), and form a full picture of the character by doing so. Which is exactly how I see the writing approach so far.

The Tenno still has a deal with Wally; the Drifter doesn't have the same link to the entity. Would you say they still have the same debt when Wally didn't save them? It makes more sense to send the Drifter into such a situation given that they are getting benefits from the Tenno deal without being as in as much danger if Wally calls in his chips. "I saved all of them, never said I would save you" is the line I like best about this entire dynamic. If I am reading this right, even their being in Duviri could be seen as aging up within the Void and their mind escaping into their story book world as a coping mechanism with the madness that would likely be their destiny alone their on the ship.

Its already confirmed that the reason Drifter is going back is due to not having the deal in place, thus not being sought after by the Indifference. A blindspot created by a paradox. But this entire thing only reinforces what I've been saying about Operator and Drifter each having specific territories that only they can enter as part of a bigger collective concept of the character presented to US the players as the true Tenno.

So once again I state how there is the narrative/writer's usage of the characters as pieces to a whole fuller concept. The Drifter is not treated as their own unique island, nor is the Operator, but instead both as an extension of the Tenno (player) to provide a full picture via each going into territories the other can't. The fact that 2 of my fav games (WF and Horizon) have similar elements via different means is just -chef's kiss-

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από BoxxyB:

Wow different people enjoy different things. That's not a hard concept to grasp. me not being excited for it doesn't negate the ability of others to enjoy what I don't. Power creep is an inevitability in any game that goes on this long and no amount of mental gymnastics changes the fact that DE consistently creates a problem and adds a solution. Whether you like it or not. That is how game design works especially in live service games.

It doesn't matter whether you enjoy it or not, its factually not "nothing"; there is something you just don't like it/enjoy it. Its essentially like someone saying how there's nothing to eat; having it pointed out they're standing in front of an entire buffet of food; and them saying "but I don't like any of that". As if it validates the claim of there being nothing to eat, when it doesn't.

The devs and game haven't made it a secret that the game is a power fantasy. The only "issue" I'd have is if the devs decided to try to take the game into Soulsborne territory to appease the one camp of annoying sweatlords, rather than maintaining an approachable territory that is fun.

They are a separate person. They are split off of the same person, The narrative is pretty clear on this, like having the characters say it clear. Mechanically, they are the same due to hand-wave paradox. Sicorro is an amp; as the Tenno and Drifter are closer aligned Tenno power is obtained by the Drifter, this is implied to be due to the Tenno being the important link the Drifter has to this reality. The drifter only even knows about what the Tenno has experienced from Duviri Teshin and linking up with the Tenno this isn't narratively a more complete person, this is two different aspects of potential paths with the Tenno being from the path of a choice and Drifter being from a third option essentially not even the binary opposite. An unrealized reality.

[XianE]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Drago:

They are a separate person. They are split off of the same person, The narrative is pretty clear on this, like having the characters say it clear. Mechanically, they are the same due to hand-wave paradox. Sicorro is an amp; as the Tenno and Drifter are closer aligned Tenno power is obtained by the Drifter, this is implied to be due to the Tenno being the important link the Drifter has to this reality. The drifter only even knows about what the Tenno has experienced from Duviri Teshin and linking up with the Tenno this isn't narratively a more complete person, this is two different aspects of potential paths with the Tenno being from the path of a choice and Drifter being from a third option essentially not even the binary opposite. An unrealized reality.

I never claimed they weren't separate people, but that they each give pieces to a bigger whole that is the "Tenno". Each having things that they can do or story paths open to them. The Operator is NEVER going to have a romance path or a stumbling with transference as a novice moment; The Drifter is never going to have the history with Lotus or particular experience/skill with transference and its nuances; or even really be able to connect with ones like the Holdfasts the same way. They each have their own veins to add to the collective story and they are both extensions of the Tenno (player) being the same character over different paths walked. You're acting like I'm trying to smash them together, when in reality I'm saying they each add to a grander collective picture/story of the character that IS the same character just from different paths that allow them to go into different veins. Drifter can have a romance, Operator can NOT; Operator can have big emotional moments with Lotus due to their history, Drifter can NOT. Both of these however slot into the greater idea towards the Tenno aka the PLAYER behind both of them that use them as an extension into the world of WF. I will be choosing to have a romance with Eleanor through my Drifter, I will be answering Teshin's questions during the War Within to build my narrative story of what happened and how my Operator reacted. They're extensions of ME the player.

[Drago]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από XianE:

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Drago:

They are a separate person. They are split off of the same person, The narrative is pretty clear on this, like having the characters say it clear. Mechanically, they are the same due to hand-wave paradox. Sicorro is an amp; as the Tenno and Drifter are closer aligned Tenno power is obtained by the Drifter, this is implied to be due to the Tenno being the important link the Drifter has to this reality. The drifter only even knows about what the Tenno has experienced from Duviri Teshin and linking up with the Tenno this isn't narratively a more complete person, this is two different aspects of potential paths with the Tenno being from the path of a choice and Drifter being from a third option essentially not even the binary opposite. An unrealized reality.

I never claimed they weren't separate people, but that they each give pieces to a bigger whole that is the "Tenno". Each having things that they can do or story paths open to them. The Operator is NEVER going to have a romance path or a stumbling with transference as a novice moment; The Drifter is never going to have the history with Lotus or particular experience/skill with transference and its nuances; or even really be able to connect with ones like the Holdfasts the same way. They each have their own veins to add to the collective story and they are both extensions of the Tenno (player) being the same character over different paths walked. You're acting like I'm trying to smash them together, when in reality I'm saying they each add to a grander collective picture/story of the character that IS the same character just from different paths that allow them to go into different veins. Drifter can have a romance, Operator can NOT; Operator can have big emotional moments with Lotus due to their history, Drifter can NOT. Both of these however slot into the greater idea towards the Tenno aka the PLAYER behind both of them that use them as an extension into the world of WF. I will be choosing to have a romance with Eleanor through my Drifter, I will be answering Teshin's questions during the War Within to build my narrative story of what happened and how my Operator reacted. They're extensions of ME the player.

I feel like I am circling a bit, so that is on me. How about this; can you give me an example of the narrative in the game that is supporting your view on this? Views and fine as are theories but I do not see any completing of a singular particularly when the Tenno is the kiddo; the Drifter is the young adult. Note that Ordis calls both "Operator" since it makes him feel better, the Tenno is the one that became a Tenno. Drifter only has power due to sharing the Tenno's reality now and thus being included in the Tenno's deal.

Again, the points you are making about the Tenno and drifter being your avatar in the game are mechanical points. They are both player characters, and mechanically they are played almost identically because that was likely more easy. Romance options are pandering, I don't; as a player need to be involved in a player character's extra curricular activities even though it can be assumed they were involved in them during the time I, the player; was out during the time skip; or if it is now going to happen during play. It doesn't matter and if they aren't there in the flesh; its doubly weird - if they remote Arthur for instance - yeah that would be super creepy. Personally, I figure they are controlling that Excalibur that drops into Warframe 1999's past like reality reality as that would make the most sense trying to translate them into the setting, but wouldn't really cover folk's desire to play as the Hex but skins will exist.

Simply; story options for the player to experience are good and I as the player experience any that I can see, read, or what-not; but that doesn't mean that they happen to me - the player - but rather to those characters. The Tenno is one person and they have their own story; the Drifter another. They are both my character; but their stories don't necessarily share their own tribulations. Kahl is another character you get to control; their story doesn't show the journey of the Tenno or more, the Drifter but rather some of the ramifications of their actions. Now, new heroes are stepping up to oppose the system in place and make a new future, no matter how doomed such actions might be. This elevated the overall story but not the particular story of the Tenno themselves.

[XianE]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Drago:

I feel like I am circling a bit, so that is on me. How about this; can you give me an example of the narrative in the game that is supporting your view on this? Views and fine as are theories but I do not see any completing of a singular particularly when the Tenno is the kiddo; the Drifter is the young adult. Note that Ordis calls both "Operator" since it makes him feel better, the Tenno is the one that became a Tenno. Drifter only has power due to sharing the Tenno's reality now and thus being included in the Tenno's deal.

Um like the entire narrative setup? The fact that there are Drifter quests and Operator quests, which BOTH are shown to the player aka the Tenno; even how DE addresses players as Tenno. On top of that Reb's reactions towards the notion of Operators ever engaging with anything romantic = reinforcement that it'll never happen; instead Drifter is the one filling in that slot. You also seem to be completely missing what I'm presenting, which have to do with experiences not having powers or not. Timeline person A by the time you start the story is 50 with a dog; you're never going to get to see or experience the puppy days that one had outside of flashbacks that wouldn't work for a game like WF; instead you have Timeline B person interacting with a puppy that slots in to give that to you the viewer/player. We're never going to get to see the early days of Operators stumbling with their transference, instead during The New War we got to Drifter having that moment to slot into the overall picture of them. Operator is NEVER going to have a romance system; Drifter however IS going to have one to slot into that section of the overall picture of them. BOTH are extensions of the player; which is exactly what the entire structure of the game is built around.

Again, the points you are making about the Tenno and drifter being your avatar in the game are mechanical points. They are both player characters, and mechanically they are played almost identically because that was likely more easy. Romance options are pandering, I don't; as a player need to be involved in a player character's extra curricular activities even though it can be assumed they were involved in them during the time I, the player; was out during the time skip; or if it is now going to happen during play. It doesn't matter and if they aren't there in the flesh; its doubly weird - if they remote Arthur for instance - yeah that would be super creepy. Personally, I figure they are controlling that Excalibur that drops into Warframe 1999's past like reality reality as that would make the most sense trying to translate them into the setting, but wouldn't really cover folk's desire to play as the Hex but skins will exist.

Um no, while there is a mechanical part to them; there is also a narrative reason for it as well. Namely to allow you the player to craft your narrative within the bounds allowed (because obviously they can't program in for every single thing ever); even to some degree having what amounts to a personality/narrative crafter system via what many view as an inconsequential morality system. Regardless they are both extensions of you the player via YOU making choices not watching as they make their own. This isn't a game like Resident Evil where you choose a character at the start then proceed down a path that has no choices involved in it; its a game where you're presented NUMEROUS chances to either decide on your character's personality:

(War Within)
- I held out hope.
- They had lost their minds.
- They were nothing but animals.

- I hated it.
- I controlled it.
- I embraced it.

- Destroy the Kuva
- Control the Kuva
- Consume the Kuva

or the narrative:

(Glast Gambit)

- Cure Neewa
- Leave it to Neewa to decide
- Send Neewa home

(Whispers in the Walls)

- that it was always watching.
- that this was no way to remember me.
- that he wasn't worthy.

You the player are deciding those things through the Operator and Drifter, not having pre-determined things that make it clear that you the player are an observer.

Um no romance options are not damn "pandering", while some people don't have those drives or have them in specific manners (respect to the Aces); it is still a common story element for characters. Especially within the Drifters seeming age and in the seeming position the Hex will be in as comrades in arms to bond with, naturally that bond leading to more. There is nothing that suggests that the Operators ever had or will ever have that territory as they are forever children; Drifter on the other hand can and add it to the Tenno experience. Because despite what you do or don't want to be involved with its still an element of the character and life in general. I for one am going to have my Drifter engaging with that system and I hope that they have the option for some form of poly, cause otherwise going to have to use multiplatforms to do an Eleanor run and an Aoi one; because I refuse to not engage with a perfectly fitting element of the story.

I expect to actually travel to a (not THE but A) 1999 including having our Drifter form actually there. Probably utilizing the Void's breaking from normal rules of the universe to do so and that by extension our arsenal comes along as well; though I'd be fully open to having it be New War 2.0 in being given a new set of weapons & abilities (or returned original Drifter abilities) for the duration of the quest there. The being able to romance Eleanor pretty much throws out the notion of us projecting into Arthur, cause they're not going to do an incest thing as its just a big NOPE. On top of that the only one shown to be able to interact with us without a going there event is Eleanor and that's only in bits without her truly seeing us. So I fully think we're going to go through some Void event that sends Drifter back to that time and potentially leads to it becoming a parallel branchline to the main universe; not a bubble world like Duviri.

Simply; story options for the player to experience are good and I as the player experience any that I can see, read, or what-not; but that doesn't mean that they happen to me - the player - but rather to those characters. The Tenno is one person and they have their own story; the Drifter another. They are both my character; but their stories don't necessarily share their own tribulations. Kahl is another character you get to control; their story doesn't show the journey of the Tenno or more, the Drifter but rather some of the ramifications of their actions. Now, new heroes are stepping up to oppose the system in place and make a new future, no matter how doomed such actions might be. This elevated the overall story but not the particular story of the Tenno themselves.

Actually no, you are deciding what those characters do and how they're defined and HAVE BEEN doing so since Second Dream. The only thing that's happened since is them introducing a new version of the character to explore elements they couldn't with the Operator. "They are both my character", which is exactly the point. YOU crafted their experience and personality, YOU will decide to engage or even not with the romance system; but ALL of it from Operator to Drifter goes into the collective story/picture to complete it for YOU the player aka the Tenno. The only way I'd see it differently is if they removed the dialogue options from every quest to have it only proceed with one way to fully make it the character's path not the player's.

Kahl shows more of the world of Warframe and also isn't literally another version of the Operator that's going into storylines that involve them. He's off doing his own reformed Grineer thing vs. the Drifter who is literally just an older version of the Operator who walked a different path allowing for different explorations of the character who you customized through both looks and dialogue choices. Even the way DE talks about Operator and Drifter is in the vein of being two sides of the same coin that are linked and telling a bigger story that fits each of them. They are separate characters but also add to the bigger picture of the character for the Tenno/Player that is progressing through the story.