So, Ember worked out well, how about bringing back Mag and Frost?

[Capn Queer]

Title's pretty self-explanatory, and before anyone comes in with the "legality" and "exclusivity" arguments, DE's regularly brought back formerly exclusive and time limited items before, I myself have bought packs that formerly got put away, this would be nothing new or uncommon for them. Excalibur Prime is a special case, quite reasonably, it makes sense to leave the stuff that the original supporters of the game got exclusive as an acknowledgement of how they helped shape the game.

The same can't be said of either of the currently unavailable Heirloom packs, which are near universally agreed upon as anti-consumer messes that left a bad taste in the mouths of everyone who was paying attention at the time, including DE given how they changed things up for Ember.

The problem still isn't actually dealt with until they correct their mistake and make them more widely and reasonably available though, and as much as I like DE they should still be held to that and politely pestered about it until they do something about it. The precedent's already there, they should be expected to follow it, especially in cases where breaking that precedent would be just kinda bad for all of the people that they already ticked off with a previous bad business decision.

Hell, I wouldn't mind if it's only a Sometimes thing still anyways, maybe put them on a rotation or something when Rhino's Heirloom drops, sort of like the Prime Resurgences. If the value feels off putting them at the same price as Ember because the people who originally bought them paid more then give the people who originally bought it plat to make up the difference, maybe a sigil or something too.

Honestly, given how it felt even back then, they do kinda deserve some more too, so it would be a good chance to make their purchase feel a bit less extortion-y.

Warframe's a remarkably consumer friendly game, DE's a surprisingly good company, I still support them readily, it'd be nice to not feel like that's partly in spite of a past really kinda scummy business mistake though. They have they have the power to fix it, so they should be held accountable until they do.

[TubeSockWarrior]

Never ever.

[󠀡󠀡]

They can but they don't want to because they don't want to offend people. They can easily say something like "We promised to never release this bundle, here's the skin on its own though" but they're worried people who want to be special and the only one to own the skin will get upset.

They'd rather the players who didn't get it be upset than the ones they know are willing to spend that amount of money. Basically, they want the whales to keep spending and not be put off.

(I used to spend like a whale on WF as well, think I put in close to $2800 since 2015 across Xbox One and PC. I sorely regret it.)

[Sceles]

They literally said that Frost and Mag heirlooms will never be available again and sold them with that promise. I don't think it's possible to bring them back without full refunds to everyone who got them and even then it might quite difficult. Plus most players probably agree that things that were sold as exclusive should be left as they are so bringing them back even with refunds would likely cause a massive outrage. It's true ofc that some players are not happy with the current situation, but things would get way more out of control if DE actually brought them back for those players.

Also IMO Ember should not be compared to Frost and Mag anyway because yes it's called heirloom but is actually exactly like a deluxe skin if we look at pricing, bundles and availability. Everything matches to a deluxe skin yet they decided to call it heirloom for some reason. Mag and Frost were the only true heirloom skins that we ever had and will ever have because DE abandoned their original concept because exclusivity doesn't make everyone happy.

[󠀡󠀡]

Originally posted by Sceles:

They literally said that Frost and Mag heirlooms will never be available again and sold them with that promise. I don't think it's possible to bring them back without full refunds to everyone who got them and even then it might quite difficult. Plus most players probably agree that things that were sold as exclusive should be left as they are so bringing them back even with refunds would likely cause a massive outrage. It's true ofc that some players are not happy with the current situation, but things would get way more out of control if DE actually brought them back for those players.

Also IMO Ember should not be compared to Frost and Mag anyway because yes it's called heirloom but is actually exactly like a deluxe skin if we look at pricing, bundles and availability. Everything matches to a deluxe skin yet they decided to call it heirloom for some reason. Mag and Frost were the only true heirloom skins that we ever had and will ever have because DE abandoned their original concept because exclusivity doesn't make everyone happy.

Not really, DE can choose to ignore those who are outraged, same way they're ignoring us. There's so many ways they can get around their promise like release a new bundle with changes to it. They never explicitly said the skins themselves are exclusive are they?

Either way, they want to look good so I doubt they'd risk looking bad.

[Val]

It's never happening, so just let it rest already. They were advertised to be 100% exclusive to that specific time frame, and will remain that way. I am sorry if it somehow made you so extremely upset that you missed out on getting them, but they are not returning ever.

[Capn Queer]

Originally posted by Sceles:

They literally said that Frost and Mag heirlooms will never be available again and sold them with that promise. I don't think it's possible to bring them back without full refunds to everyone who got them and even then it might quite difficult. Plus most players probably agree that things that were sold as exclusive should be left as they are so bringing them back even with refunds would likely cause a massive outrage. It's true ofc that some players are not happy with the current situation, but things would get way more out of control if DE actually brought them back for those players.

Also IMO Ember should not be compared to Frost and Mag anyway because yes it's called heirloom but is actually exactly like a deluxe skin if we look at pricing, bundles and availability. Everything matches to a deluxe skin yet they decided to call it heirloom for some reason. Mag and Frost were the only true heirloom skins that we ever had and will ever have because DE abandoned their original concept because exclusivity doesn't make everyone happy.

Ember should absolutely be compared to Frost and Mag, because they're literally the same thing and that's the point, the reason everyone was angry originally with the first two Heirloom collections was because they were Deluxe skins made for an anniversary that was supposed to be a fun time for everyone to celebrate pushed in really bad bundles that made it impossible to justify for the majority of people who wanted them and given a time limit to pressure people, something that they did not want to repeat because it was bad and nobody liked it.

Also, they've repeatedly said that things were exclusive and time limited before and still brought them back later with the exception of Excalibur Prime which is for the recognition of early supporters, and people support that being exclusive because it has sentimental value, not because exclusivity itself is good, it's an exception, not the rule. The previous Heirlooms don't have that benefit, again, the backlash they received when they first dropped them.

[Val]

Originally posted by Capn Queer:

Originally posted by Sceles:

They literally said that Frost and Mag heirlooms will never be available again and sold them with that promise. I don't think it's possible to bring them back without full refunds to everyone who got them and even then it might quite difficult. Plus most players probably agree that things that were sold as exclusive should be left as they are so bringing them back even with refunds would likely cause a massive outrage. It's true ofc that some players are not happy with the current situation, but things would get way more out of control if DE actually brought them back for those players.

Also IMO Ember should not be compared to Frost and Mag anyway because yes it's called heirloom but is actually exactly like a deluxe skin if we look at pricing, bundles and availability. Everything matches to a deluxe skin yet they decided to call it heirloom for some reason. Mag and Frost were the only true heirloom skins that we ever had and will ever have because DE abandoned their original concept because exclusivity doesn't make everyone happy.

Ember should absolutely be compared to Frost and Mag, because they're literally the same thing and that's the point, the reason everyone was angry originally with the first two Heirloom collections was because they were Deluxe skins made for an anniversary that was supposed to be a fun time for everyone to celebrate pushed in really bad bundles that made it impossible to justify for the majority of people who wanted them and given a time limit to pressure people, something that they did not want to repeat because it was bad and nobody liked it.

Also, they've repeatedly said that things were exclusive and time limited before and still brought them back later with the exception of Excalibur Prime which is for the recognition of early supporters, and people support that being exclusive because it has sentimental value, not because exclusivity itself is good, it's an exception, not the rule. The previous Heirlooms don't have that benefit, again, the backlash they received when they first dropped them.

The only things they ever brought back were things that were never stated to be permanently exclusive in the first place, so that statement is just incorrect. The founder items were stated and advertised to be truly exclusive, the TennoCon digital packs also were, and the same goes for the Heirloom packs you're referring to, and none of those will ever return in any capacity because they were designed as such.

[Apocaleptic]

if they do, then excaliber prime is up for debate again ;D

[Black Paisley]

Ember only worked out well because DE faced heavy criticism for how they handled Frost and Mag Heirlooms. It's not coming back, and Rhino is the next Heirloom skin.

[BEEP!]

I would really like if they brought back the Heirloom packs because I wasn't around when they were a ting I just got back a week ago from a returning player and I got the Ember Heirloom pack and if the other Heirloom packs came back I'd buy them instantly.

[QLIQ]

No, they have to rely on Fomo to push sales. Not happy with it? Well quit live service games.

[Kawalorn]

Originally posted by 󠀡󠀡:

Originally posted by Sceles:

They literally said that Frost and Mag heirlooms will never be available again and sold them with that promise. I don't think it's possible to bring them back without full refunds to everyone who got them and even then it might quite difficult. Plus most players probably agree that things that were sold as exclusive should be left as they are so bringing them back even with refunds would likely cause a massive outrage. It's true ofc that some players are not happy with the current situation, but things would get way more out of control if DE actually brought them back for those players.

Also IMO Ember should not be compared to Frost and Mag anyway because yes it's called heirloom but is actually exactly like a deluxe skin if we look at pricing, bundles and availability. Everything matches to a deluxe skin yet they decided to call it heirloom for some reason. Mag and Frost were the only true heirloom skins that we ever had and will ever have because DE abandoned their original concept because exclusivity doesn't make everyone happy.

Not really, DE can choose to ignore those who are outraged, same way they're ignoring us. There's so many ways they can get around their promise like release a new bundle with changes to it. They never explicitly said the skins themselves are exclusive are they?

Either way, they want to look good so I doubt they'd risk looking bad.

They open themselves up to actual lawsuits if they return Mag and Frost.

[Calamity]

Let them have Cake!

[psnjungle]

Originally posted by Capn Queer:

Title's pretty self-explanatory, and before anyone comes in with the "legality" and "exclusivity" arguments

FFS there is No legality issues at all here. In a world where Real physical crimes being committed, there is no chance in hell that a court of law would even consider elevating such a victimless crime for further proceedings.

So it may sound good on paper. "I BOUGHT frost-pRiME FOR 80+ dollars and now they bring it back! i gonna SUE!!!!" this would not be taken seriously, and the letigation cost would far exceed any payout. Even if every single player that currently played the game at the time were awarded, the court cost would far exceed each of them getting their little 80 dollars back.

To "sue" someone isn't as straight forward as it sounds, especially a million dollar company who will fight tooth and nail to defend their scummy actions. In reality, they could re-release those ugly air-loom packs tomorrow if they wanted to with a note attach saying "lol" if they wanted to.

[Shield]

They put themselves in a bind selling a premium, time-limited skin with the promise of exclusivity as part of the package.

If there's any point that Mag and Frost have the Heirloom skin returning for the general public, it'll be many, many years in the future.

Tbh I would not hold onto hope or hold my breath. More likely they just "won't repeat the mistake of the heirloom bundle" once a new series of skins come around and hit Mag and Frost.